Political Correctness.

[Acrylic-bob]

Originally Posted by steeljack

'funny' how she made such a deep impression on a whole generation, ask a question ....."what do you remember of the Coronation ?" and invariably the answer is Queen Salote (sp?)

Ha ha, I recall someone asking who was the funny looking little indian chap sitting in the carriage with the Queen of Tonga on the way to Westminster Abbey, to which someone replied "Her lunch!"

Not very PC, but very funny, or at least it was at the time. Context is everything. And , moreover, I am sure that the Queen of Tonga would have seen the joke too.

[Stanaccy]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Stanaccy...I like your last sentence and I think it is very relevant...but as far as saying that some of the phrases you have quoted are insulting and harmful......they are just cliches that are the currency of everyday speech and we should not be taking offence at them, unless of course they are used
pointedly (I'm not sure if you get what I mean by that....but if you were to say to a group of non-white people 'play the white man'...then they might take offence....but then again they might not...it all depends on the situation and the circumstances). I think it is so easy to cause offence by pussy footing around so that the people you are trying NOT to offend, realise that YOU see them as different. Differences should be accepted and celebrated. Multiculturalism has done more to harm relationships within communities than anything else, because some of the methods employed have meant that other cultures have been celebrated at the expense of our own

I disagree Margaret with regards statements, you may mean one thing when you say it but whether it is insulting or not depends on the recipient and how the statement is perceived. Which is why I am saying Political Correctness in its purest form is down to basic respect and manners.

If you said something to somebody and they found it insulting I am sure you and most people on this site would apologise beginning the apology with "Sorry I didn't mean it like that" and then in furure be a bit more careful about how it was phrased. In some areas this is seen as "being PC". Hogwash it's basic good manners.

Multiculturalism is not an evil. It's about acceptingdifferences and finding out more about them. FFS If we hadn't embraced parts of other cultures in the past we wouldn't be eating Sweet and sour dishes or curries, wearing jeans or moccassins.

The main problem with councils and goverment agencies is that due to the fear of offending they have pushed it too far and are dismantling our culture at the expense of others, rther than embracing them all and celebrating the diverse communities we have.

I agree the pendulum has swung too far and it needs redressing however we have to be careful when it comes to rebalancing and not push it too far the other way.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Stanaccy - isn't that what I said...maybe not in the same words, but essentially.....I said it depends on circumstances and situations....and also your own relationships with the people to whom the cliche was used.
Multiculturalism is like the Emperor's new clothes.....we have been bamboozled into thinking it was good for us and for the ethnic minorities(and I don't just mean the Asian population here) when in actual fact it has done harm to communities by singling them out as different.
And I don't agree that we would never have tried the different culinary delights of other nations - the advent of global travel has meant that people are more exposed to different foods and cultures....though personally I do not have any kind of longing for foreign food, be that Pizza or curry...give me the stuff I can identify.
I agree that there has been much dismantling of our own culture, and I think it is seen with suspicion - this cannot be good for the ethnic minoities it was supposed to help....you see when most people in this region mention ethnic minority, Asian is the only ethnic minority that is recognised....and there are many other minorities that need to be accepted.

[Stanaccy]

Margaret I speak from experience living in an area of London close to Lunar House (Then Main calling point for immigrants in this caountry).

In the area I lived 147 different languages were spoken.I said it depends on the recipient as to what you say wheter it be offensive or not.

Benefits of Multiculturism include (in no particular order) discovering how people celebrate different festivals (take Mardis Gras for instance, what we know as Shrove Tuesday) Notting Hill Carnival, The Mela, music, foods, clothing, generally everything we do, eat and wear has come from other cultures.

There is no such thing as Englishness we are an amalgam of different cultures following different invasions, be it Roman, Anglo Saxons, Norse, French etc. Unless there aare people on here who can trace their origins back beyond the Celts. The great thing about British and English culture is it picks the best of others and amalgamates it.

It is part of our heritage that we accept differences and celebrate them and include them,e.g. Christmas trees, Easter Eggs, pancakes, fireworks etc.

I love my country as well but we have to accept our culture has always been fluid and it is not wrong to accept new aspects but as I said earlier not at the expense of our old ones.

[West Ender]

Originally Posted by steeljack

'funny' how she made such a deep impression on a whole generation, ask a question ....."what do you remember of the Coronation ?" and invariably the answer is Queen Salote (sp?)

Terribly, terribly "Un-PC" quote from Noel Coward.

Queen Salote, who was a very large lady indeed, rode through London in an open carriage. Beside her was a very small man. Someone asked Coward who the little man was, to which Coward replied,
"That's her lunch."

[Margaret Pilkington]

I don't really think it needed multiculturalism to teach us about the difference between races...and I think I mentioned that I have no qualms about people celebrating their heritage and their culture.......and I also accept that there is no pure English/British nation. I worked in the NHS along side people of different culture and creeds, it never presented a problem because we are tolerant.......and to be honest I don't think you can legislate for tolerance.......when you do legislate to such an end, it drives the intolerant underground where they make mischief.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Stanaccy

Multiculturalism is not an evil. It's about acceptingdifferences and finding out more about them. FFS If we hadn't embraced parts of other cultures in the past we wouldn't be eating Sweet and sour dishes or curries, wearing jeans or moccassins.

The main problem with councils and goverment agencies is that due to the fear of offending they have pushed it too far and are dismantling our culture at the expense of others, rther than embracing them all and celebrating the diverse communities we have.

These are two very pertinent statements.

We accept all sorts of things into our culture without even thinking about it - coffee houses, trick or treat, french fries, soccer, etc. But I think the reason they are accepted so easily is because of TV - American TV programmes come over here and use these references to a point where we just accept them. Ask any kid which number they should call in an emergency and I'll bet a fair share of them say 911. But this isn't a criticism, it's a good thing that we absorb and evolve. Perhaps, the more simple reason why asian based things aren't absorbed so easily is because we are always going to have that language barrier - for instance, I'm not going to sit down and watch a Bollywood film because I wouldn't understand it.

Multicultural things can easily be absorbed without losing the current culture. Traditions are traditions and should be maintained.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I agree that there has been much dismantling of our own culture, and I think it is seen with suspicion - this cannot be good for the ethnic minoities it was supposed to help....you see when most people in this region mention ethnic minority, Asian is the only ethnic minority that is recognised....and there are many other minorities that need to be accepted.

You know Asia is an awfully big continent and when people in this country say "Asian" what they actually mean is "Pakistani muslim" but are afraid to say that for fear of being unPC. In the USA if you say "Asian" it means Chinese or Japanese yet here we are allowed to describe Chinese people as Chinese. Why can we not describe Pakistani people as Pakistani?

[Margaret Pilkington]

yes, Willow, and I think I alluded to that fact in a previous post......i suppose it could even be called pussy footing

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

You know Asia is an awfully big continent and when people in this country say "Asian" what they actually mean is "Pakistani muslim" but are afraid to say that for fear of being unPC. In the USA if you say "Asian" it means Chinese or Japanese yet here we are allowed to describe Chinese people as Chinese. Why can we not describe Pakistani people as Pakistani?

You can do that with no problem.......It's when it is shortened it causes offence.

[WillowTheWhisp]

So why do we have this pointless term "Asian"?

[Margaret Pilkington]

I think we have it because it encompasses the many differing people and cultures from the Asian sub-continent......although as you say, when we say Asian we usually are referring to Pakistanis/Bangladeshi'/Indians

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

So why do we have this pointless term "Asian"?

I would assume that that is PC. Crackers is'nt it?

[cashman]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

So why do we have this pointless term "Asian"?

beats me think its stupid n errodes peoples identity. which i am sure the differant races are very proud of.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

You know Asia is an awfully big continent and when people in this country say "Asian" what they actually mean is "Pakistani muslim" but are afraid to say that for fear of being unPC. In the USA if you say "Asian" it means Chinese or Japanese yet here we are allowed to describe Chinese people as Chinese. Why can we not describe Pakistani people as Pakistani?

Asian is just a general term - in the same way as European.
South Asian is often used to denote Pakistani/Bangladeshi and Indian. Again, that's like calling Polish people Eastern Europeans.

It's just location, not religion! No one is offended by being called Asian, just as we aren't offended by being called European.

Although, they sometimes should be, in my opinion - as it's used to describe ethnic origin, which is defining people by their skin colour and their parents heritage and not always the place that they were born. For example, why should my friend be described as Asian when he's rarely been there and was born in Lancashire?