Punishing the Parents.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Jaysay I have suggested this before for other types of anti-social crimes...apparently it could be seen to contravene their human rights!

Well thats the problem Margaret, but while these lawyers are making a fortune on the so called Human Rights laws, who's looking out for the ordinary law abiding man in th street, you can bet your bottom dollar that if you or I so much spit in the street, to coin a fraze, our feet wouldn't touch

[Margaret Pilkington]

It seems to me that only criminals and msicreants have human rights......the rest of us...well we can go hang!

[panther]

jailing the parents is gonna do sod all!

like someone said on here.....take away the £££££ and make em clean the streets!!

BUT.......why now?, kids have been drinking on the streets for years....i did it
but i never caused any trouble, thats probably because i wouldnt dare......
did anyone watch that police thingy on TV last night, about how police has changed?
Police clipping the little sods round the ear etc...thats what it still should be like.....we need to show the little ****s whos boss....simple

[cashman]

i watched it panther and regretted very much that this is long gone.

[Less]

Originally Posted by blazey

I didn't read all of the posts

Ooooh! Blazey If I was your parent I'd slap your legs!

It's a bad habit you seem to be in just lately, Jump in with both feet without the courtesy of reading what others have to say, How on earth are you going to prosecute/defend a client if you don't consider all that has been said?

course it's not your fault I think your parents should be punished for bringing you up with this attitude!


By the way back to the thread, I thought it was supposed to be the children that would bear the sins of their fathers not the other way around?

and while googling a touch of the religion:-

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Now that's more like it bring back hanging for sheep rustling!

[jaysay]

You do realise Less that we're going to get another ten page diatribe from blazey now

[derekgas]

Deja vu!! Seem to remember a thread that was similar to this, also remember posting into this thread, but cant find it now. Imprisoning the parents is not the answer, Polly, I disagreed with some of your thoughts in the other thread, because I have 2 adopted children who have behavioural problems, time past they would have had a slap (it didnt do my other grown up kids any harm, and they havnt been in much trouble), but since I am not allowed to smack them, punishment is limited, and let me tell you, without reservation, the smack worked!! Any other punishment has a lesser immediate or lasting effect, my elder kids also had a healthy fear of the law, but my younguns wont, none of them had, or will have any fear of anybody at school as I did, the law needs to be changed, and the police, parents and teachers need to be given back some authority, THEN jail the parents who's children constantly misbehave or break the law.

[Benipete]

Training a child is no differant than training any other animal.Some are easy and some more difficult.At the end of the day it is down to the trainer/s.Parents teachers Police and the law.It will do no good at all if they do not pull together.Children will find the weakest link and pull the chain apart.Once we start to argue amongst ourselves we have lost and they have won.

[polly]

Originally Posted by derekgas

Deja vu!! Seem to remember a thread that was similar to this, also remember posting into this thread, but cant find it now. Imprisoning the parents is not the answer, Polly, I disagreed with some of your thoughts in the other thread, because I have 2 adopted children who have behavioural problems, time past they would have had a slap (it didnt do my other grown up kids any harm, and they havnt been in much trouble), but since I am not allowed to smack them, punishment is limited, and let me tell you, without reservation, the smack worked!! Any other punishment has a lesser immediate or lasting effect, my elder kids also had a healthy fear of the law, but my younguns wont, none of them had, or will have any fear of anybody at school as I did, the law needs to be changed, and the police, parents and teachers need to be given back some authority, THEN jail the parents who's children constantly misbehave or break the law.

this worries me as I do not think we should fear the law or our parents, this is what causes people to go to extraordinary lengths to avoid authority and allows gangs and bullies to operate. We need children and people to respect the law and parents.

[cashman]

thats the problem polly theres no bloody respect, n thats down to lack of deterant.

[BERNADETTE]

Originally Posted by polly

this worries me as I do not think we should fear the law or our parents, this is what causes people to go to extraordinary lengths to avoid authority and allows gangs and bullies to operate. We need children and people to respect the law and parents.

And that is just the point nobody fears the law now and they should. Is that not what it is there for? I must be on the wrong wave length because I thought it was supposed to act as a detterent

[polly]

Originally Posted by cashman

thats the problem polly theres no bloody respect, n thats down to lack of deterant.

No there isnt any respect but physical violence alone wont bring it back.
People have to trust the law, the legal system and children need to trust their parents
The law should act as a deterant but it cant do that if it just works on a bullying system.

Again back to school I would never never think of hitting a child but then I would never put myself in a situation that I needed to hit a pupil

At home although both my own children are now adults I think the punishments that most effective with them were............ I wsas going to say lack of privalages...................but upon reflection and based on what they have said as adults it was probably lack of attention, anger on my part resulting in their isolation.
The most memorable incident, retold recently by my youngest was when he had lied to us and was somewhere he shouldnt have been at a time that was totally unsuitable. I was so angry with him I just sent him to his room and said we would talk about it in the morning, not the reaction he was expecting. His attitude nowadays is that that experience was the worst punishment because he knew he had really upset me
so its back to respect, love and trust

[derekgas]

If that is your most memorable incident polly, you have had a sheltered life, and your kids are naturally (if there is such a thing) well behaved, I know as a fact that, a smack on the hands or legs works, removing privaleges doesnt work, we had 2 children aged 4 and 5 who, when I lived in a flat, were banging on a single glazed window which was 8 feet wide and 5 foot high with a 15 feet drop on the other side, I slapped them both on the leg hard, (a knee jerk reaction to the fact my heart was in my mouth), one of them later had a bruise on thier leg (and we still dont knw if it was the smack), the nursery called social services, I was threatened with prosecution unless I said they would not be smacked again, so I agreed, they never went near the window again, and rather that than I find them on the ground because of a lack of action, but the overriding factor is this, these kids are now problematic, we have tried everything ss have suggested, and they just simply will not behave with any consistency (especially the child the ss were brought in for), oh, and the ss said 'children should not be smacked, you should explain the situation to them', I said 'which part of dont bang on that window darling because if it breaks, you will fall out of it and die, do you think a 4 year old will understand?' as it happened, I KNEW they would not do it again, even though I regret having smacked them so hard, it WORKED!

[derekgas]

And now you have me going, I will give you another example, my eldest boys are 27, 25 and 17, by the time they were 6 or 7, they required no punishment because they knew where the line was and what the consequences were, the middle lad was particularly well behaved, mostly because he is naturally quiet and laid back, when the eldest was 15, he got in with a bad crowd, and his behaviour changed, I was very busy working, and he was taking more and more liberties at home when I wasnt there, one Friday, his mum grounded him for hitting his brother, he ignored her and walked out of the house, he strolled in at 11 oclock, not expecting me there because that was my normal night out, as he came in, I grabbed hold of him (he is a big strong lad, and very capable of handling himself, had I showed any weakness, he would have taken advantage of it), put him against the door, and told him, 'if you think you are big enough now to take me on, then lets go outside and sort it man to man, otherwise, under our roof, you live by our rules', I was hurt having to do this, and he was shocked and hurt because of it, he was good as gold from then on, (I had other things to sort out with his 'mates' too, but once I had seen the parents, all was fine), so now you know why by and large, I ignore the do gooders who preach that kids dont respond with respect when they know who the authorities are.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by polly

No there isnt any respect but physical violence alone wont bring it back.
People have to trust the law, the legal system and children need to trust their parents
The law should act as a deterant but it cant do that if it just works on a bullying system.

Again back to school I would never never think of hitting a child but then I would never put myself in a situation that I needed to hit a pupil

At home although both my own children are now adults I think the punishments that most effective with them were............ I wsas going to say lack of privalages...................but upon reflection and based on what they have said as adults it was probably lack of attention, anger on my part resulting in their isolation.
The most memorable incident, retold recently by my youngest was when he had lied to us and was somewhere he shouldnt have been at a time that was totally unsuitable. I was so angry with him I just sent him to his room and said we would talk about it in the morning, not the reaction he was expecting. His attitude nowadays is that that experience was the worst punishment because he knew he had really upset me
so its back to respect, love and trust

By what you have said polly it appear that you could be a teacher (again back at school) well what happens if one of the little darlings smacks you in the face, send them to sit on the naughty step whist you pop of to hospital to have your face stitched, there is no respect because you can no longer teach it, love is a pair of Nike trainers, and nobody trust anybody anymore. When teachers are leving in their droves because of classroom violence and stress, parents have their hands tied behnd their backs (as Derek has said) and the police are shackled by red tape or are sat at a desk meeting government targets, and the human rights act has everybody hog tied, the future certainly isn't bright and it isn't orange either