Punishment in schools. - Page 2

shakermaker · 03-10-2008, 19:29

Surely the point is to find more civilised and intelligent ways of commanding and teaching respect, not journey back to neandethal ways.

Bonnyboy · 03-10-2008, 19:46

I can’t see corporal punishment returning to schools, not in the light of the latest UN report - Children’s Rights not being met

AccyLass · 03-10-2008, 19:48

I don't think they should allow caining as with not allowing parents to "whack" their children, as SOME take it too far, so would SOME teachers, as their are SOME that are teaching for the wrong reasons and would hit out at petty things and so on

Therefore, they would need training, when to "whack", how to "whack", how hard to "whack"

Why not just train them in having more control, how to deter from a situation

As has been said, it ant ALL kids, it's a minority

The minority can be helped and punished in some other way surely

It's when it gets to be the majority that their is a big problem

Why let some complete stranger hit someone else's children but frown upon the childrens parents for the same action?

Lilly · 03-10-2008, 20:04

Corporal punishment is a thing of the past along with the death penalty.....and like the death penalty it will never return.

We have gone too far the other way now, children have been given too much choice and their opinions are sought on everything.....good in some ways, not so good in others.

As several have said, naughty children are the result of poor parenting and I don't know how we can rectify that.

WillowTheWhisp · 03-10-2008, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

I think, maybe, a good starter, would be to allow parents once more to give their children a slap for wrongdoings ... not many parents would overstep the mark here. Would stop lots of children from carrying on to more serious crimes ... does usually only start with cheek after all. Some children will never, ever respond to discipline in any form, but are in the minority, but the 'naughty step, taking away their materialistic items for a while' never works .. they know will get them back eventually.

I think the last few words of your post speak volumes. If a threatened punishment is not carried through then a child knows they can get away with murder. Equally if a material item is removed from them it doesn't bother them if they know they are going to get it back.

I told my girls that if they had something taken from them as a punishment they would nit get it back. I only ever had to do it once. They knew I was serious after the first time and didn't risk it again.

How many parents say "If you do that again I'll............... (whatever)" but then don't actually do the thing they say they will do. The child does 'it' again and the parent says "I mean it. Next time I'll ..............." and the child learns that the punishment never happens so they continue to misbehave.

I took a new doll from each of my daughters when they did something they had been specifically told not to do. My friend asked me when I would give the dolls back to them. I told her that I did not intend to return their dolls. They had both been warned and yet had continued to do the thing I had told them not to do. If I had given the dolls back eventually they would have got away with it. They learned that when I said a thing I meant it.

U think it's the same with the threat of corporal punishment. It wasn't so much teachers smacking children that led to discipline, but the fact that children knew that teachers could do.

West Ender · 03-10-2008, 20:26

When corporal punishment in schools was the norm there was a different attitude to discipline and punishment right across Society. The era when a teacher could cane a child was the era when the child would get a clout from his father for being badly behaved enough to be caned. It was when policemen walked the streets and thought nothing of administering a "thick ear" to young miscreants, that was when most parents would warn their offspring never to "bring the police to my door" - in other words never to bring shame on the family. It was when children were expected to behave properly and to be polite to adults and a cheeky child would be told off, in no uncertain terms, by any adult who witnessed it.

What we have now is children who "know their rights" and have no respect for anyone, least of all their parents who, very often, have no self-respect anyway. We have a culture where, if an adult sees a child misbehaving and tells him to stop, the parents are likely to be on the doorstep issuing threats. They don't give a damn if the police arrive at their door, will lie vigorously to "protect" their offspring and snigger at the policeman's back when he leaves.

Yes, I think there are some instances, in schools, where corporal punishment is warranted but in the present climate it isn't feasible.

WillowTheWhisp · 03-10-2008, 20:29

How do we get back the respect for authority?

Lilly · 03-10-2008, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Ender

When corporal punishment in schools was the norm there was a different attitude to discipline and punishment right across Society. The era when a teacher could cane a child was the era when the child would get a clout from his father for being badly behaved enough to be caned. It was when policemen walked the streets and thought nothing of administering a "thick ear" to young miscreants, that was when most parents would warn their offspring never to "bring the police to my door" - in other words never to bring shame on the family. It was when children were expected to behave properly and to be polite to adults and a cheeky child would be told off, in no uncertain terms, by any adult who witnessed it.

What we have now is children who "know their rights" and have no respect for anyone, least of all their parents who, very often, have no self-respect anyway. We have a culture where, if an adult sees a child misbehaving and tells him to stop, the parents are likely to be on the doorstep issuing threats. They don't give a damn if the police arrive at their door, will lie vigorously to "protect" their offspring and snigger at the policeman's back when he leaves.

Yes, I think there are some instances, in schools, where corporal punishment is warranted but in the present climate it isn't feasible.

Good post, Westender.

Sadly, all you say is true.

jaysay · 04-10-2008, 10:30

Well in the 50s and 60s we didn't have all the problems with kids that we have today, so we have to think whats changed, there is just no discipline at all, teachers hands are tied as are he police, so we now have the situation where kids can run amok and no one an do a blind thing about it.

lancsdave · 04-10-2008, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Ender

What we have now is children who "know their rights" and have no respect for anyone, least of all their parents who, very often, have no self-respect anyway.

Agree with 99% of your post but this bit falls slightly short. Parents have also lost their rights.

flashy · 04-10-2008, 10:44

i neither disagree nor agree with corpral punishment in school, YES something should be done with unruly kids BUT i dont think the cain should NOT be brought back

things like boot camps or community work should be undertaken by unruly kids

Neil · 04-10-2008, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashytart

things like boot camps or community work should be undertaken by unruly kids

What do you do when the kids turn up for the community work and refuse to do anything?

churchman phil · 04-10-2008, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

U think it's the same with the threat of corporal punishment. It wasn't so much teachers smacking children that led to discipline, but the fact that children knew that teachers could do.

I agree. The <i>threat</i> was enough to deter most bad behaviour. Obviously not all were deterred but it was a noticeable minority. I think the same thing about the death penalty too.
Westenders post(#21) is spot-on.

There are seven kids in my house and discipline has to be strictly adhered too for obvious reasons. You can't go soft on one and hard on another cos it gets noticed. Having their liberty taken away by grounding can be very effective. There is also a naughty step for the youngest. He knows it only ends when he apologises so he stays there as long as it takes - usually pretty quickly nowadays.

Parenting is the problem and imo it's also a lot to do with the young mums (and dads where present!) being too young to cope. Whilst some are helped by their parents a lot are kicked out into benefits and are offered no advice on how to manage the burden of children.
This brings us back to the education of our youngsters. Anyone else feel basic PRIDE is not taught anymore??

katex · 04-10-2008, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by churchman phil

. There is also a naughty step for the youngest. He knows it only ends when he apologises so he stays there as long as it takes - usually pretty quickly nowadays.

Problem with this is Churchman, getting a really defiant child to stay on the naughty step ... must respect your authority to start with.

churchman phil · 04-10-2008, 13:07

Which again is down to parenting surely?? I believe all kids will be naughty at some point during their childhood - they are after all learning how to behave and this is inevitable. But I also believe that if they've been brought up with love and respect and pride then they'll respond in kind for the vast majority of time and will realise that it is the right way to behave.