Punishment in schools.

derekgas · 03-10-2008, 15:00

I thought someone would have mentioned the news report this morning about bringing back corporal punishment in schools, they said some teachers were for it, but more were against it, and referred to them as do gooders. Well I am not necessarily saying the cane should return, but I think something is needed, I truly believe that kids were better behaved when the cane threat was around, and there was much more respect and less violence, which to me rules out the saying that the cane teaches violent responses. Am going into hiding now and will be back when the bullets have passed.

Neil · 03-10-2008, 15:05

These days they give the bad kids an mp3 player if they are good for a few days.

jaysay · 03-10-2008, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekgas

I thought someone would have mentioned the news report this morning about bringing back corporal punishment in schools, they said some teachers were for it, but more were against it, and referred to them as do gooders. Well I am not necessarily saying the cane should return, but I think something is needed, I truly believe that kids were better behaved when the cane threat was around, and there was much more respect and less violence, which to me rules out the saying that the cane teaches violent responses. Am going into hiding now and will be back when the bullets have passed.

I think its been said before many times on here derek, by people from my age group that it didn't do use any harm. Since they did away with punishment in schools everything has gone belly up, there is no deterrent any more, kids can talk to teachers anyway they want, because they've got rights. When I was at school you earned your rights, and it held me in good stead for life after school, now its just a joke

K-P · 03-10-2008, 16:02

I guess people see what they want to see

While the cane (leather strap at my senior school) and other forms of punishment where about at schools... Skinheads where born. Football hooliganism started, city riots and many other things... To say the yoof of the day where better behaved is complete and utter rubbish....

polly · 03-10-2008, 16:06

The problem is that respect is learnt at home, long before children start school. This is where the problems begin, at home within the family unit. Teachers merely pick up the pieces of what society has landed us with

Myself, I have never felt the need to use physical violence on a pupil as it would in my opinion diminish my control not improve it.

I have often felt I needed to tell the parent(s) to get their act together and stop blaming everyone else

K-P · 03-10-2008, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by polly

The problem is that respect is learnt at home, long before children start school. This is where the problems begin, at home within the family unit. Teachers merely pick up the pieces of what society has landed us with

Myself, I have never felt the need to use physical violence on a pupil as it would in my opinion diminish my control not improve it.

I have often felt I needed to tell the parent(s) to get their act together and stop blaming everyone else

PERFECT ANSWER

derekgas · 03-10-2008, 16:09

So why kp, is knife crime, violent crime in general, property damage, theft etc much, much higher these days than ever before, skinheads were a minority, I dont see that they count, there will always be bad in society, but there is definately a reason why there is more crime since the cane was abolished, and many kids have respect for nothing, again, when the cane was around, kids had respect for that at the very least.

K-P · 03-10-2008, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by derekgas

So why kp, is knife crime, violent crime in general, property damage, theft etc much, much higher these days than ever before,

I have no idea... Why would I have.. I dont believe kids where better behaved when the cane was about. which is what you stated you believe. Why does that mean i would know the cause of more crime nowerdays...

Your surely not saying that as theres no cane now and knife crime is on the increase ... that must be the reason.. thats laughable.. a bit like..

All cats have 4 legs... my dog has 4 legs so it must be a cat....

cashman · 03-10-2008, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by polly

The problem is that respect is learnt at home, long before children start school. This is where the problems begin, at home within the family unit. Teachers merely pick up the pieces of what society has landed us with

Myself, I have never felt the need to use physical violence on a pupil as it would in my opinion diminish my control not improve it.

I have often felt I needed to tell the parent(s) to get their act together and stop blaming everyone else

i can see what yer saying polly n its fine in a perfect world, where ALL parents heed the warning, in the real world some couldn't give a stuff, sad but true, therefore respect n discipline should in my view be brought back into schools, whatever form is debatable, they could start,by "NOT" rewarding bad kids if they are good fer a few days/weeks, that is not acceptable.

K-P · 03-10-2008, 16:34

I agree not rewarding bad kids... But anyone who thinks that allowing teachers to hit children with a stick or a leather strap is the answer has had one too many cainings for there own good

Neil · 03-10-2008, 16:44

I agree with K-P and Polly. The cane may deter problems in school but would do nothing for the problems out of school.

Its parents that are the problem. Too many just don't care what their kids are up to.

Many kids don't know what is right and wrong - that is something that should be learnt at home not school.

These so called problem kids - and I believe they are in the minority in general need to be caught and punished. We don't want them on our streets so why are they?

onlyme · 03-10-2008, 17:04

I think that discipline belongs at home. I am not adverse to giving my son a tapped hand or leg (usually only when he has done something dangerous though, not for everyday naughtiness). But event though I trust his teachers 100%, if they were to lay their hands on him in a bad way, at very least it would cause bad feeling between myself and them.

My son seems to have respect for people and has RARELY (if ever) needed harsh discipline from anyone else that has looked after him. In fact, most people say that he behaves better when I am not there.

Is discipline something else that we are offloading onto an already overloaded education system??? Are we looking to not only feed the kids healthily, but discipline them as well, oh and a bit of learning may come in useful??? Or in 20 years time, are we just going to give birth and hand them straight over to a teacher to rear until us the parent can be trusted to look after them??

derekgas · 03-10-2008, 17:07

There are plenty of people who have stated on here that corporal punishment did them no harm, and they adhered to the rules in school and society in general because of it, so if the parents have seen this work, and many used the same methods until recent years, there has to be a link! The unruly (if that is the right word) parents, that dont care for thier children are, in my opinion, the ones who were born since corporal punishment was abolished, they dont respect much, hence the youngsters dont either.
I had teachers at school who, because of the fact they were a large physical presence, or had a very authoritative voice, had the children more or less behaving, the rest relied on punishment!

Caz · 03-10-2008, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

Its parents that are the problem. Too many just don't care what their kids are up to.
Many kids don't know what is right and wrong - that is something that should be learnt at home not school.
These parents need to be held accountable, but how. Maybe we should tag em so they have to stay in and keep an eye on the kids, but wait, no the kids are outside causing problems, so that wouldn't work.

. Kerfew for parents and kids?

These so called problem kids - and I believe they are in the minority
Very true, it's rare the good ones get noticed, just the bad ones when they are causing a problem

Some how we have to get to the bottom of what's happening, but there is no easy answer is there? How many think tanks have there been about this issue, still no realistic answers.
But the problem isn't really just about today is it, it's several generations in families, going from bad to worse...

Rather than just locking them up, or whatever, why aren't the authorities getting to the bottom of why kids are getting out of line.
Not all bad kids are really bad, some just need a little help along the way.

The rewarding bad uns that are good for a while, ie, as moorhead does , that has always got my goat. Kids work hard all year because of who and what they are, only to see these others being rewarded.

You get praise for doing good, and scalded for being bad, is how I see it.

katex · 03-10-2008, 18:59

I don't particularly like the idea of caning being re-introduced into schools, as Polly has said, can negate a disciplinary skill by teachers without this.

You have all had the teacher that can keep order linked with good teaching, without resorting to physical punishment. A little more training in this area could be an advantage.

Only 2 out of 5 teachers voted to bring it back, mainly because a) there would be lots of objections/complaints from pupils/parents b)they didn't wish to carry out this punishment ... as regards the latter, would they have to receive training on the correct level of the 'whack' ?

I think, maybe, a good starter, would be to allow parents once more to give their children a slap for wrongdoings ... not many parents would overstep the mark here. Would stop lots of children from carrying on to more serious crimes ... does usually only start with cheek after all. Some children will never, ever respond to discipline in any form, but are in the minority, but the 'naughty step, taking away their materialistic items for a while' never works .. they know will get them back eventually.