r. biggs. - Page 5

katex · 08-08-2009, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

I guess some people just lie down and hand over whatever's demanded of them, when faced with violent bullies, and others of us would fight back, and not give in.

Can be an involuntary reaction ... nobody was more surprised by me than my stupidity when four young thugs were in the process of stealing my car ... didn't think .. just tore me blouse with the green muscles that seemed to metamorphosise to allow me to attack them. They got the car unfortunately..

Always thought would just hand over the car keys in a situation like this, but didn't happen in reality. Yes, stupid

... adrenalin clouded my sensibility.

garinda · 08-08-2009, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

Can be an involuntary reaction ... nobody was more surprised by me than my stupidity when four young thugs were in the process of stealing my car ... didn't think .. just tore me blouse with the green muscles that seemed to metamorphosise to allow me to attack them. They got the car unfortunately..

Always thought would just hand over the car keys in a situation like this, but didn't happen in reality. Yes, stupid

... adrenalin clouded my sensibility.

I've been in a similar situation. Someone threatening me with a knife, and trying to grab my brief case. I attacked him with my brolly, breaking the beautiful malacca handle on his head.

Self preservation kicks in when you feel threatened and under attack.

Perhaps you do have doubts about your reactions after the event, but the last thing you need is someone you don't know labelling you a fool for daring to exhibit the basic animal instinct of self sefence.

katex · 08-08-2009, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by mick

This is a link to Ronnie biggs on sky news put on 1 hour ago

Ronnie Biggs Is 80 Today - The 46th Anniversary Of The Great Train Robbery | UK News | Sky News

What's knaffing (sp.LOL) is all the good wishes in flowers and cards he has received ....

garinda · 08-08-2009, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

What's knaffing (sp.LOL) is all the good wishes in flowers and cards he has received ....

From that you can see evidence that he is some kind of hero to a certain type of person.

That type of person being a cretin.

cashman · 08-08-2009, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

If this gang of violent thugs had given the train driver advance notice they were going to attack the train, he might have decided to act differently than he did.

This was not he case.

He has a split second to act, and was coshed on the head because of his actions, and lived with those injuries for the rest of his life.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing.

With it Jack Mills may have acted differently, and wouldn't then be dismissed by yourself as 'a fool', some forty six years later.

i said the same all those years ago as did many people, i see no reason to change my view, hindsight is wonderful commonsense better.

garinda · 08-08-2009, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

That type of person being a cretin.

The type of person who'd have their photograph taken with Ronnie Knight in some naff bar on the Costas, who thinks Biggsy was a bit of a card, and who'd swear blindly that the Krays weren't all bad, because they were 'good to their mother'.

Cretins.

garinda · 08-08-2009, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

i said the same all those years ago as did many people, i see no reason to change my view, hindsight is wonderful commonsense better.

...and after labelling Jack Mills 'a fool', you applauded the actions of two local men who chased and captured a suspected sex attacker, regardless of the danger to themselves, or the fact that the victim wasn't known to them. Two men who similarly had a split second decision to make regarding their actions.

In your opinion two are heroes, and the other a fool.

Sadly sounds like double standards to me.

cashman · 09-08-2009, 11:29

hell of a differance between the sexual attack on a child, n a gang of masked armed thugs after stealing someone elses money, though not apparently to you.

seems to me if folk don't play by your rules then they are wrong.

cashman · 09-08-2009, 11:41

simply put ya talk about split second reactions etc, when someone sexually assults a child or a woman then i can understand the reaction to go after the assailant, attack the assailant, or whatever, what i cannot understand is putting yerself in danger for a firm that you mean nothing too only a number,or defending that firms money.

you n many probably think hero as yer entitled, i think fool.

garinda · 09-08-2009, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

hell of a differance between the sexual attack on a child, n a gang of masked armed thugs after stealing someone elses money, though not apparently to you.

seems to me if folk don't play by your rules then they are wrong.

It was reported that the men were told of the attack by their boss. They didn't witness anything.

They made an instant decision, just like the victim of the thugs who attacked the train, to try and find the unknown suspect.

They didn't know if the suspect was armed, or indeed if a crime had actually been committed. It was all hearsay at that particular second in time.

They acted instinctively, in the defence of someone they didn't know. They certainly weren't protecting their own person, or property.

You applaud the actions of two, and label another, who was violently attacked for acting similarly, after making a similar split-second decision, as 'a fool'.

Happily your attitude, that the main victim of the train robbers, deserved everything he got, is in the minority, at least by those who have posted in this thread so far.

Keep digging yourself a deeper hole.

You might even find an iron bar down there.

garinda · 09-08-2009, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

someone elses money,

The government's money is someone's money...ours.

garinda · 09-08-2009, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

simply put ya talk about split second reactions etc, when someone sexually assults a child or a woman then i can understand the reaction to go after the assailant, attack the assailant, or whatever, what i cannot understand is putting yerself in danger for a firm that you mean nothing too only a number,or defending that firms money.

you n many probably think hero as yer entitled, i think fool.

So anyone who ever employed you could expect you to turn a blind eye, whilst you knew of people stealing from the company, because it wasn't 'your money'?

Happily not an attitude many would agre with.

A principle's a principle, and stealing is stealing. No matter who owns the goods being thieved.

garinda · 09-08-2009, 13:21

Labelling the train driver 'a fool' for making an instant decision not give in to the bullying demands of these thugs, is as callous as labelling an old lady a fool, who'd been similarly beaten black and blue, for not letting a mugger steal her handbag. Even though she'd be warned previously that if that situation ever arose just to let them have it, as it wasn't worth the risk of being injured. Same human instinct of defence, no matter whether it's your own person you're defending, the train you are in charge of, or a handbag you're carrying containing a life time of memories.

However we seem to be going off thread.

Personally I do not think Jack Mills was 'a fool' for not giving in to the demands of a violent criminal gang.

He would have had my sympathy. Certainly much more sympathy than I have for Ronnie Biggs, who is the selfish architect of his own circumstance.

Margaret Pilkington · 09-08-2009, 13:28

The media are to blame for this man's notoriety...and for turning him into some kind of hero....who evaded his sentence for such a long time.

While I understand that he has been released on the grounds of compassion, he is still a criminal.
He may not be a threat anymore, but he is and always will be, in some measure, responsible for affecting the life and family of the train driver, who could never live a normal life after the attack.

cashman · 09-08-2009, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

So anyone who ever employed you could expect you to turn a blind eye, whilst you knew of people stealing from the company, because it wasn't 'your money'?

Happily not an attitude many would agre with.

A principle's a principle, and stealing is stealing. No matter who owns the goods being thieved.

yer great at twisting things to suit yer own ends if their was n award fer it ya would win. again big difference between people stealing from a company n people attempting to steal armed with coshes etc, n of coarse i have sympathy fer mr mills, but that does not stop me thinking it was a real dumb thing to do, you seem to deliberatly disregard my view on this, cos it don't suit rindys view of life. i fail to see this hole i am digging, perhaps you musta filled it when ya fell in yerself.