Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[Margaret Pilkington]

Cashy the media are owned by those who would wish to sow discord because a divided nation is one which is conqurable.
Article 50 was given Royal assent on the 16 th of March last year.
I don't think this can be revoked.(but I am willing to be educated if anyone out there knows differently)
My feelings are that there will not be an acceptable deal put forward.
I know there were reports the TM has run the proposals past Mutti Merkel, but her say so is no guarantee of success(right now both of these women are as popular as a snake at a picnic).
You are right that money talks, but the negotiators do not want to give a millimetre on anything....and it might just end up in a 'no deal' deal.
That would be far more preferable to the current proposals which would be nothing at all like leaving the EU and would cause and create no end of political turmoil...and it would be the death of democracy.
There is precious little trust in politics (and this is not just in the UK) as things stand.....it would demolish the last remains shreds of trust....it might even cause the outbreak of riots.
Anyone for a Molotov?

[cashman]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/…/theres...ret-cloak-da…/

[Margaret Pilkington]

To negotiate in ANY situation there has to be the desire on BOTH sides for an acceptable agreement to be reached.

I have seen nothing at all that leads me to conclude that the EU negotiators have any interest(which is a lot lower emotion than desire) in negotiating anything.

They want what they see as THEIR money, but do not want us to have a meaningful say in any part of the bargaining process.
What they wish to do is impose their rules on us and we are supposed to lie down and say 'Thank You very much Sir'.....something like what David Cameron did....a rubbish deal.
We take their fisons and then hand them the paper to wipe their bottom with.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by cashman

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/…/theres...ret-cloak-da…/

Got a 404 error on that page Cashy.
And as I have said, the media are in it to sow discord...they want us to be fighting ourselves...it is to their advantage.

[Margaret Pilkington]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...aled-minister/

Is this what you were wanting me to see?

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

My feeling is that when TM goes to Brussels with what is in the recent White Paper....Michel Barnier(his name means barrier, by the way) he will kick the proposals into the long grass.

That's a given merely on principle, anything we suggest will be disregarded by the eu because that's simply how they operate.



Should this be the case any decent UK PM would tell the eu, "Up yours! We're out of here!" Unfortunately we've got Treasoner DisMay "leading" us harder, deeper & faster into the cesspool of the eu.


She has to go! Regardless of the supposed apocalyptic consequences this would cause for the UK, she was an abysmal failure as home sec & now an even greater disaster as PM, unelected to boot!


I don't think Iv'e despised any other politician so vehemently with maybe the exception of the degenerate Blair, but DisMay is now easily outstripping him for my absolute detestation!

[cashman]

Have to say Day shes up there with Thatcher as a complete barsteward in my book.

[Exile on Spencer St]

Unfortunately, Margaret, I tend to agree with Cashy on this.
It stinks of a deal dreamed up by Whitehall mandarins and their comrades in Brussels. The dithering and delay has been deliberate so that there is no time to come up with an alternative and (most critically) to get a new Tory leader.
The EU will reject bits of it, so Quisling May can continue to pretend she's offering a tough deal, but not so much that May can then claim it's 90% of what she has asked for (of course no one in the metropolitan media will point out that what she is asking for is less than 10% of what people voted for).
The MPs, of both parties, will then approve the terms of surrender to avoid them risking defeat in an election and the loss of their privileges.
Hope I'm wrong but, given the evidence, I'm not holding my breath.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I don't know if you are apologising for being with Cashy on this....if you are, then there is no need(Cashy is very astute and is good at smelling a rat)....and if you aren't then apologies from me for reading it wrong.

Of course this is the work of the pro EU Mandarins....especially the biggest traitor of all Oliver Robbins ( though my name for him is Oily Robbins...he is the man who left a confidential Brexit Dossier on the Eurostar)

I cannot see this white paper making it past the Brussels bureaucrats.

I also think that the electorate are watching with eagle eyes for any sleight of hand and I can see there being a whole load of trouble ahead if any of the things in the white paper are further 'negotiated'( meaning watered down...not in our interests).

Not coming up with an alternative means that there will be a no deal exit....because TM cannot stop the process of leaving.
She can however, do a dastardly deal which leaves us a vassal state.....but if this happens then it is the death of democracy and also the two party political system.
I do believe that the seeds of division have been sowed to explicitly create in fighting....almost a distraction if you like.
This is calculated to create unrest and confusion in both business and the population in general.

Time will tell.

[kestrelx]

If there is a no deal Brexit goods in and out of the country will turn to a standstill! Head of John Shirley Haulage who's been moving goods around Europe for 40 years says currently there are 200 Customs Clerks who check trucks at Dover. If there is a no deal Brexit we will need 8,000 Customs Clerks to deal with all the checks and of course there aren't that many so the movement of goods will stop.

[Margaret Pilkington]

That is the opinion of a single haulier.
OK, he has a wealth of experience, but(and it is a big but) we have no idea what will happen between now and the date of leaving.
It is looking like there could be a NO DEAL...but the majority of those who voted to come out of the EU wanted it like that.
Not a half arsed hokey cokey deal.
I think we all knew that there would be some thorny problems to overcome...but that does not mean that they are insurmountable.
If it is a NO DEAL arrangement, then who is to say that the government will not implement some emergency measures to deal with the customs issues.
We are going to be having 39billion pounds to play with for a start.....that will employ a lot of security and customs people....raise the numbers of those in employment...those paying taxes, that in itself has to be a good thing for the economy.
I am sick of hearing the prognostications of those doom mongers (who so far as I have seen have been very wide of the mark) who are remainers in a brexit coat.
They DO NOT KNOW what will happen.

It is a case of 'what will be, will be'.
For me that is preferable to being a serfdom of the EU....with no say in what happens.

Whichever way you cut it the EU is going to find itself in something of a financial hole....so don't tell me that they won't want to sell their BMW's and their Washing machines here.....we buy more from them than we sell to them.

[Less]

Originally Posted by kestrelx

If there is a no deal Brexit goods in and out of the country will turn to a standstill! Head of John Shirley Haulage who's been moving goods around Europe for 40 years says currently there are 200 Customs Clerks who check trucks at Dover. If there is a no deal Brexit we will need 8,000 Customs Clerks to deal with all the checks and of course there aren't that many so the movement of goods will stop.

If as you claim the Country will stand still due to leaving a corrupt system, why will we need 8,000 extra clerks to watch nothing happening?

Seems to be a touch of over staffing to me.

[Exile on Spencer St]

Originally Posted by kestrelx

If there is a no deal Brexit goods in and out of the country will turn to a standstill! Head of John Shirley Haulage who's been moving goods around Europe for 40 years says currently there are 200 Customs Clerks who check trucks at Dover. If there is a no deal Brexit we will need 8,000 Customs Clerks

Hey, that's 7,800 extra British jobs in Dover alone!
If we assume the same 3,900% increase in employment at all the ports, airports, and rail terminals around the country that's the country's unemployment 'problem' solved.
Project Fear? If you believe such crap, Kestrel, it's more like Project Idiot.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Exile on Spencer St

Hey, that's 7,800 extra British jobs in Dover alone!
If we assume the same 3,900% increase in employment at all the ports, airports, and rail terminals around the country that's the country's unemployment 'problem' solved.
Project Fear? If you believe such crap, Kestrel, it's more like Project Idiot.

Yeh just summed him up very nicely there.

[Mark2009]

I wonder if anybody feels there will be any negative outcomes when we leave and if there will be, are they outweighed by the fact that the eu commisars won't be controlling us .
Mark