Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[cashman]

Its rather obvious there will be, but like anything we will come through it.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by cashman

Its rather obvious there will be, but like anything we will come through it.

Also it was obvious before the Referendum took place, unless people were really dumb imho.

[Hill Walker]

Originally Posted by Mark2009

I wonder if anybody feels there will be any negative outcomes when we leave and if there will be, are they outweighed by the fact that the eu commisars won't be controlling us .
Mark

Leaving the EU will result in a whole raft of changes. Some will happen quickly, some slowly, some will be greeted by the majority, some by one or more minorities. Some of these changes will be regarded as good, some as bad. At this time it is useless to speculate on what these changes will be as no one knows what sort of exit will be negociated and even if this were known and carefully planned for the ‘Law of Unintended Consequences’ is certain to rear its helpful head and change things.

So far as I can see the only certainty is that we will not be in ‘The Britain that Never Joined the EU’, both Britain and the world have changed since that never happened. Its going to be interesting, maybe a bit like going abroad for the first time or something else you have never done before, you think you know what it will be like but there will be surprises. But as has been said by cashman we will muddle our way through it, and it will be interesting!

[Margaret Pilkington]

Hill Walker, I think you have summed up the situation very well.
Of course there are going to be great changes....and it depends on your viewpoint as to whether they are good or bad.
From my perspective we will be able determine our own course in the world without being shackled to an undemocratic and corrupt organisation.
One which has dictated to us, but allowed us very little say in the way things are.(it is interesting to note that a vote has never gone in Britains favour all the time we have been in the EU).
The population of this country were bamboozled from the outset.
We were sold a trading organisation....this morphed into something far more sinister.
Political alignment was not what we signed up to...or not knowingly.
The governments could have given us a say over the various changes(the changes in different treaties), but they didn't.
The Brussels mandarins are unelected and as far as I can see unaccountable. We cannot remove them if they are doing a bad job.
I will be happy to be out...totally out.Not the Hi-ho version that was beaten out at Chequers.
To me, that agreement is a fudge....we would be paying in to the EU pot forever, we would still be bound by EU legislation, but have no say in the formulation of legislation....and that to me is not the Brexit I voted for.

No one in their right mind believes that we can go back to how it was before we joined the EU....but what we can do is trade with who we want.
The EU sells us far more stuff than we buy from them.
Do you really think that they will refuse this business?
Do you really think that those countries that rely on tourism are going to be turning Brits away.
The EU has not been good for the P.I.G.S countries...many of the young people in these countries are unemployed....with rates running at around 49%.

It is in the interests of the EU to offer us the worst possible deal...they want to make an example of us and stop other countries like Italy and Greece from thinking that they too could leave.

We just have to roll our sleeves up and get on with it.

[Hill Walker]

Yesterday evening I sat down and watched the repeat of “Whatever Happened to Spitting Image (2014)”. “What a shame its no longer being broadcast”, I thought, then I realised it would be impossible. The script writers would have nothing to do, the prophets of doom * and exuberance ** have taken all the lines they might have used. The puppet makers also would be under employed as there are so few of the main players worth modelling.

Its all got so grey and predictable, perhaps the last fortnight and particularly the last 48 hours of the negotiations will produce some results otherwise for years all sides *** will shake their heads and say “this was not well done”.

* prophets of doom = project fear
** prophets of exuberance = look at all the money we can reallocate
*** Britains for, Britains against, EU they didn’t did they, EU we should work together, and all shades in-between.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Hill Walker, I think you have summed up the situation very well.
Of course there are going to be great changes....and it depends on your viewpoint as to whether they are good or bad.
From my perspective we will be able determine our own course in the world without being shackled to an undemocratic and corrupt organisation.
One which has dictated to us, but allowed us very little say in the way things are.(it is interesting to note that a vote has never gone in Britains favour all the time we have been in the EU).
The population of this country were bamboozled from the outset.
We were sold a trading organisation....this morphed into something far more sinister.
Political alignment was not what we signed up to...or not knowingly.
The governments could have given us a say over the various changes(the changes in different treaties), but they didn't.
The Brussels mandarins are unelected and as far as I can see unaccountable. We cannot remove them if they are doing a bad job.
I will be happy to be out...totally out.Not the Hi-ho version that was beaten out at Chequers.
To me, that agreement is a fudge....we would be paying in to the EU pot forever, we would still be bound by EU legislation, but have no say in the formulation of legislation....and that to me is not the Brexit I voted for.

No one in their right mind believes that we can go back to how it was before we joined the EU....but what we can do is trade with who we want.
The EU sells us far more stuff than we buy from them.
Do you really think that they will refuse this business?
Do you really think that those countries that rely on tourism are going to be turning Brits away.
The EU has not been good for the P.I.G.S countries...many of the young people in these countries are unemployed....with rates running at around 49%.

It is in the interests of the EU to offer us the worst possible deal...they want to make an example of us and stop other countries like Italy and Greece from thinking that they too could leave.

We just have to roll our sleeves up and get on with it.

Once more I'll repeat myself, Margaret you are right.
The panic mongers & pro EU forecasters predict doom and gloom because over half the Country wish to go back to ruling our own lives.
If only they (the forecasters) could send their magnificent crystal ball back in time, THEN, the politicians that negotiated to join the Common Market would have been able to predict how the whole thing would pan out, not a market but a whole new life dominated by unwanted regulations that deprived our Country of trade, commerce & freedom.

Perhaps they would have said, no thanks?

We'll do nicely on our own, the rest of Europe can go swivel.

We have a second chance lets ignore the panic mongers and get on with a future for our Country.

[cashman]

Thing is though Less i wouldn't trust May as far as i can spit.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Oh Less...I DO like the cut of your gib.

I especially like the bit about the EUrope can go swivel.

We should never have joined....we are not the kind of people who take kindly to being told what we can and cannot do.

The other thing about Brits is that we follow rules rigidly....where those in other countries (particularly France) bend the rules or sometimes ignore them completely....whichever fits their purpose.

If we do not escape the clutches of the EU, then we might just as well have lost WW2....because Germany is the dominant force in the EU....so though the rules come from Brussels, they are forged in Germany.

[Less]

Originally Posted by cashman

Thing is though Less i wouldn't trust May as far as i can spit.

Whatever makes you think I do?

She's about as trustworthy as a local politician that goes back on his word over a referendum!

[Margaret Pilkington]

She is in an unfortunate and unenviable position. The guy who set up the referendum did the cowardly thing and ran away once the result was known....shame on him!

She has been badly advised along the way.
Please do not think that the decisions being made are formulated by her...they are not.
They are formulated by senior civil servants(and this is a bit like being in the EU....they are unelected, unaccountable and cannot be removed by the electorate.Most of these civil servants have their own agendas and are horrified at the thought of leaving the EU....so they procrastinate and make life as complicated as possible)
Olly Robbins(a dyed in the wool Europhile) is in charge of our negotiations to leave....so how does that work?
The answer is...it doesn't.
Add to that the members of the government like Philip Hammond who are hampering all efforts made by the PM.
Letting the negotiators in Brussels see our hand of cards is not an intelligent way to conduct affairs is it?

It must be as difficult as shovelling fleas across a barnyard.
TM has not got a firm majority, so she is really between a rock and a hard place with a fire breathing dragon blowing smoke up her bum.

Now Cashy....do you want the job or not?

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

She is in an unfortunate and unenviable position. The guy who set up the referendum did the cowardly thing and ran away once the result was known....shame on him!

She has been badly advised along the way.
Please do not think that the decisions being made are formulated by her...they are not.
They are formulated by senior civil servants(and this is a bit like being in the EU....they are unelected, unaccountable and cannot be removed by the electorate.Most of these civil servants have their own agendas and are horrified at the thought of leaving the EU....so they procrastinate and make life as complicated as possible)
Olly Robbins(a dyed in the wool Europhile) is in charge of our negotiations to leave....so how does that work?
The answer is...it doesn't.
Add to that the members of the government like Philip Hammond who are hampering all efforts made by the PM.
Letting the negotiators in Brussels see our hand of cards is not an intelligent way to conduct affairs is it?

It must be as difficult as shovelling fleas across a barnyard.
TM has not got a firm majority, so she is really between a rock and a hard place with a fire breathing dragon blowing smoke up her bum.

Now Cashy....do you want the job or not?

Here I have to disagree she needs to take lessons from this guy:-
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...Q4xbMecJYg8xHB
She is in power, she has to shoulder the burden, She has to do what is right for the majority otherwise, our Government is just as corrupt as the rest of the EU.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Less

She has to do what is right for the majority otherwise, our Government is just as corrupt as the rest of the EU.

And isn't that exactly what I was pointing out.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Harry S Truman who was in office until the early fifties had the sign on his desk that told everyone ' The Buck stops here'.
I wonder just how he would fare in political circles of today.
We can look back and see great politicians.
Politicians who went into politics with a totally different motivation.
Alas there are very few politicians of that calibre in politics (in the U.K....I do not know enough about global politics to comment on elsewhere) today.
If there were, then they would be drafted in to serve the cause of the electorate.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

And isn't that exactly what I was pointing out.

You might think so, however had she stood strong for us we wouldn't still be trying to leave politely , now is the time to be firm put the EU in its place and perhaps show that not just us, but other Countries would be better off without the two dominating powers.
We have been like a one legged man in an arse kicking competition for far too long.

[Less]

I know I'm talking to the converted about getting out, but look at recent history, the extra Countries that were added to the EU they were and still are financially bankrupt, what did they have to offer?
Well as things have turned out absolutely ****** all they've made the whole charade even worse.
The only reason they were included was to add power to a corrupt system. The main player's get to be bully boys of Europe again.
As soon as we voted out we were told 'you will destabilise the EU and leave Europe vulnerable',
Nah, we are leaving just in time, the main protagonists are those that are making life difficult for us to leave, they enjoy ruling the roost and if we aren't careful they will willingly find a reason to not just rule but dominate, with all the sacrifices of the past meaning nothing.