Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[Lucysgirl]

Originally Posted by Eric

If you are interested in the disappearance of certain fruits and veggies etc., may I suggest Mooney's Seeds of the Earth: A Private or Public Resource.

Thanks Eric - Have now surfed and seen the gist of the book (as under). Bryan and my ears pricked up when we heard some American company had produced a crop that they'd incorporated a fish gene in. I wrote to our local MP straight away - I think I heard recently that the EU is in negotiations to allow more American trade - this frightens me.

""Terminator Technology AND Monsanto AND Roundup" and you'll start to get the picture. Mooney broke the story, as far as I can determine, and he broke it in this book. Biotechnology, genetic engineering, and the domination of the world by the corporate pharmaceutical and petrochemical companies proceeds apace.
This is one of the most important situations on the planet and one that those not virtually, terminally ignorant and apathetic should at least monitor if not becoming actively involved.
This book should be reprinted. "

[Margaret Pilkington]

Guinness, obfuscation is not just the domain of the Tory party.....it is something used by all political parties to bamboozle the electorate into casting a vote for them.

They tell us what they would like us to believe(whether there is any truth in it or not), they tell us what they think we want to hear,(they do not credit us with having anything inside our craniums to keep our ears apart) they tell us what they think is good for us......what they think our poor little brains can process(our own MP is a prime example of this)......they rarely tell us the truth.

They use obfuscation freely, but do not call it that. They term it as 'spin'......just a euphemism for obfuscation.

It is going on right now with all the fear stoking about leaving the EU.

What we need to remember is that nearly all the politicians in the top jobs have no recollection of Britain outside the EU......because most of them were not born......so they cannot know how things will fare if we leave.
They cannot conceive of such an idea, because they have absolutely no experience of it.

I do like your very succinct thoughts on the EU though.......
In=bad.
Out=good.
Just keep on telling yourself that.(though I still think it will all be futile - this time next year we will still be part of this organisation and in crap up to our eyebrows.......and that is just so that we don't open our mouths to complain).

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Lucysgirl

One thing is obvious to me and that is the difference between male and female brains (without doubt)

we like to chew over absolutely everything, but it seems all the males want to do is sling mud at me. (I think you may be over assuming here)

There are many blokes who can readily asses the facts, formulate an opinion & present a cognizant argument for or against dependent on their view point. Me, I am out & out "Out!" thank you very much, as previously mentioned I live in Germany & have done (from 1984 -93 with the Military & then officially as a legal civilian resident) since November 1993 up to the present time. As an "English European" I've happily wandered throughout northern Europe, seeing how others live, talking to various nationalities & garnering an insight into various mindsets of the differing nations. Some are rabid europhiles, others bemoan the loss of their previous way of life & all this due to the EU's one size fits all mentality. It doesn't work & can't work & will never work as long as there is such disparity between member states.

For the EU to work, all laws, taxes, language & standards need to be the same throughout the present disparate nation states, It's never going to happen. Wages in eastern europe aren't going to rise to the levels of the west & the west certainly won't accept wage cuts to the levels of the east & do you think the southern states will give up their lackadaisical work attitude for the Nordic/Scandic model of long hours & high taxes? No, the dream of an all encompassing socialist europe, governed by the benign leftist socialist marxists ain't going to happen, but the useful idiots will insist on persevering with their failed experiment, well why not, it isn't costing them anything & they'll be just fine & dandy regardless how much degradation the rest of us have to suffer in the massaging of their egos.

Just give me out any day of the week! It maysn't be the best option, but it'd be our choice, the choice to place an elected member & his/her party, that we choose to represent us, the best of a bad bunch most likely , but at least we can kick the muppets out if they don't buck up & work for us, something we'd not be able to do when being governed from a non-elected EU mandarin select allocated via cronyism.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Son you have voiced most eloquently what I have wanted to say.....in respect of the disparity of the member countries......and also in the failed experiment bit.

As you say it was brainless to expect the likes of Southern Europe to be on a par with the northern rich industrialised members. They did not have a level playing field from the outset. It was like harnessing a mule to a racehorse and expecting a good outcome.

The EU knew that Greece had financial problems for a long time. Yet they railroaded the Greeks into policies and goverment that they did not want....They even installed a government which was aligned to the EU principles when the Greeks complained.....an unelected government......this is the way the EU deals with those who dissent.
Not exactly democracy is it.

What should have happened was that Greece should have been allowed to return to the Drachma, it could then have devalued this(not great).....this would have enhanced the Greek tourist industry and allowed Greece to determine its own destiny.
This would have been painful, but at least the Greeks would know that hard work would eventually pay off and bring them back to solvency(ok, it would take a long time).

Imagine how the UK is going to treated after its effrontery to ask for (paltry) reforms.

[Morecambe Ex Pat]

I heard last night that the Government has spent £9Million on a shiny propaganda leaflet extolling the virtues of staying in the EU. The fact which surprised me most was that it cost nearly £500,000 just to create it. I would like to know how we apply for such Government contracts.

Personally, I am in favour of leaving the EU as it has proved to be not fit for purpose. If it was fit for purpose, amongst many other things, the decision makers would be refusing to import the cheap, low grade steel from China which affects all the steel industries in Europe and not just ours. I thought the whole idea of the common market was to control such things. Perhaps they are patting themselves on the back for negotiating such a low price from the subsidised Chinese industry.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes, the cost of this shiny new sh...erm, I mean leaflet is being paid for out of our taxes.(I resent MY money being used for something I do not willingly support) this money should be coming out of EU funds....we pay enough in for them to pay to keep us in, for that is what they want.
If we leave, there may be others who follow.
I might just put mine back in the post to 10 Downing St.
With a note on it telling our PM just where he can shove it....and it won't be up his jumper!

[Margaret Pilkington]

If you also object to the government spending YOUR MONEY on this leaflet...please sign this petition.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/116762

The petition needs 100,000 signatories to be considered for debate in Parliament.

[accyman]

money is spent now but i suppose his family could pay the money back out of one of their off shore accounts

[Less]

Tried to sign it all I get is:-

You have not signed until you click the link in the email

Looked for a link, looked for an email couldn't find either will try again later.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Less

Tried to sign it all I get is:-

You have not signed until you click the link in the email

Looked for a link, looked for an email couldn't find either will try again later.

It took my e mail link a good few minutes to arrive.....so I am sure it will turn up.
If you know of anyone else who is incensed by this use of our money, please ask them to sign it too.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Hyndburn has provided this petition with 112 signatures so far.
We need more.
Please ask your friends to sign if they do not agree to their money being used(or misused)in this way.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Less

Tried to sign it all I get is:-

I just signed up & the reply was pretty much there within minutes (at time of signing 86,6xx or so, by end of confirmation 87,4xx) seems he's gotten right up peoples noses (again) with this one.

Added to that, the "Oranjes" shoved one up the EU too, 61% +/- against on the Ukraine chicanery.

[Less]

Just took another look a confirmation email arrived an hour later, maybe they were busy, or maybe they add a delay hoping we won't remember to look again, after all, 95% of us wouldn't, as it is I can finally say, it's signed.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[Less]

Just out of curiosity, must check my signature, for some reason says I've sent from an sm something or other, my signature is supposed to be blank. Modern technology, grr, I didn't know I had one!

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[Less]

See! It did it again, when did I get this phone?

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