Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[Eric]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

It's never going to happen.

Ain't that the truth. Any attempt at a true EU has failure built into it. And every time a new state joins the chances of failure increase. But as failure becomes more and more inevitable, there are those who say "Try harder. If we do this or that it will work." Horse feathers. Failure is inevitable at some point, whatever the UK decides to do. And as Napoleon said: "Never reinforce failure."

[Eric]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

There are many blokes who can readily asses the facts, formulate an opinion & present a cognizant argument for or against dependent on their view point. Me, I am out & out "Out!" thank you very much, as previously mentioned I live in Germany & have done (from 1984 -93 with the Military & then officially as a legal civilian resident) since November 1993 up to the present time. As an "English European" I've happily wandered throughout northern Europe, seeing how others live, talking to various nationalities & garnering an insight into various mindsets of the differing nations. Some are rabid europhiles, others bemoan the loss of their previous way of life & all this due to the EU's one size fits all mentality. It doesn't work & can't work & will never work as long as there is such disparity between member states.

For the EU to work, all laws, taxes, language & standards need to be the same throughout the present disparate nation states, It's never going to happen. Wages in eastern europe aren't going to rise to the levels of the west & the west certainly won't accept wage cuts to the levels of the east & do you think the southern states will give up their lackadaisical work attitude for the Nordic/Scandic model of long hours & high taxes? No, the dream of an all encompassing socialist europe, governed by the benign leftist socialist marxists ain't going to happen, but the useful idiots will insist on persevering with their failed experiment, well why not, it isn't costing them anything & they'll be just fine & dandy regardless how much degradation the rest of us have to suffer in the massaging of their egos.

Just give me out any day of the week! It maysn't be the best option, but it'd be our choice, the choice to place an elected member & his/her party, that we choose to represent us, the best of a bad bunch most likely , but at least we can kick the muppets out if they don't buck up & work for us, something we'd not be able to do when being governed from a non-elected EU mandarin select allocated via cronyism.

Now all this got me a'thinkin'. The EU ain't all that massive by Canadian standards; but there's a shiite load of folks living there. There are lots of ethnic groups, cultures, languages, beliefs, and histories. Come to think of it there's only one history; but each country and region had different experiences of it. Over here we have a big country. We have National Parks bigger than countries. The Federal constituency of Nunuvut is about five times bigger than the UK. And "no" this is not a "mine is bigger than yours" thing. Bottom line is, there are only about 35 million of us here. Sure we have a bunch of different cultures hanging around; but nowhere near as many as you find in Europe. And we have only a couple of languages to deal with, plus a few First Nations languages. Lots of things unite us: hockey and a hate of Toronto come to mind. And you would think that with so few of us, we could all get along. Not so. Regional differences are obvious to anyone who cares to look. In the last Quebec Referendum ... call it Quebexit ... 49.42% voted to leave Canada, and 50.59% to stay. Now that was a close run thing. If 35 million of us have difficulty getting along, what chance does a EU have? ... about as much chance as a snowball in hell.

[DaveinGermany]

I'd suggest this as another reason to vote out :-

Prisons See 240% Rise In EU Convicts Paid For By British Taxpayers

The most telling part about the article is the piece which states that Britains nicks are full to overflowing while those of our "European friends" have a markedly decreased population, funny old thing that?

[DaveinGermany]

And todays arguments for getting out!

EU wants control of YOUR pension: Brussels' secret plan REVEALED | Politics | News | Daily Express

Dutch referendum: EU to press ahead with visa-free travel for Ukrainians | Politics | News | Daily Express

The EU is beyond redemption, there is no way it can be changed or bettered for those stuck within its grip. OUT NOW, is the only logical & sensible solution, surely even those who are hard of thinking should've realised this by now?

[Lucysgirl]

Anyone looking at my face can see how disgruntled I am with the Government's Leaflet that dropped through the letterbox today.

Not one mention of Donald Tusk's amendment to "Free Movement" which has resulted in practically every European Thief, Pimp, Conman/conwoman and Murderer freely stepping onto British soil and then vanishing or playing hide and see with our police.

As the government promised an explanation of what the forthcoming Treaty could mean to us I expected an in depth document to arrive on my doorstep. What a disappointment!! I'm an adult, I want details not photographs. What Infant School Brain thought it would be a bright idea to spend £8million pounds on seven "pretty glossy pictures" with an additional cost of £1.5million to have them delivered? Tusk's memo specifically promised more control of our Borders, yet some simpleton brain thought it would be a good idea to hire the author of the "Janet and John" primary school books to outline generalities. There's no words to spell out whether or not we will be allowed to stop the miscreants before they get on, or even alight from the plane, train, ferry or their hired coaches. As we already fine lorry drivers £10K for each illegal, we should also expect coach and airplane companies to take more responsibility and to check whether their passengers carry original, unadulterated legal documentation. It's quite galling that whilst all countries have a problem with fleeing miscreants, it seems we are the only country that exports fugitives who have a ready supply of money stached away and can support themselves "legally" in their new host country.

[Margaret Pilkington]

OH, come on Rena....don't tell me that this is a surprise to you?
You really expected much and got very little(a bit like the done deal that David Cameron THINKS he's achieved).
Yes, and the 9million pounds it has cost is being paid for by you and me.(how much good could this have done if the money had been used for something worthwhile?)
There has been a petition online complaining about this. Our esteemed PM does not wish to debate the issue as he reckons a precedent exists......in that the last referendum was paid out of tax payers money. I don't know what the relative cost was back then, but you can bet your neck it was not in the region of 9million)
If we are going to have some kind of information, then at least it should be balanced out with equal space being given to the reasons why we should leave.

Being in the EU is like being in an abusive relationship...it saps your courage, saps your energy,saps your confidence saps your money. You think the partnership will change....and it will, but not in your favour.
WE really need to be OUT.

[DaveinGermany]

I suggest you send it back with some comment or other, so the tax payer doesn't get stung again use this address

Freepost RSBB-XRZT-XTXE
The Conservative Party Foundation
30 Millbank
LONDON
SW1P 4DP

here's what others are doing:-

The 11 Best Ways Britons Are Dumping David Cameron's £9M Pro-EU Propaganda Leaflet

[Margaret Pilkington]

Oh, they will certainly be getting my copy back.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Oh, they will certainly be getting my copy back.

And mine,cheers dave.

[Lucysgirl]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

OH, come on Rena....don't tell me that this is a surprise to you?
You really expected much and got very little(a bit like the done deal that David Cameron THINKS he's achieved).
Yes, and the 9million pounds it has cost is being paid for by you and me.(how much good could this have done if the money had been used for something worthwhile?)
There has been a petition online complaining about this. Our esteemed PM does not wish to debate the issue as he reckons a precedent exists......in that the last referendum was paid out of tax payers money. I don't know what the relative cost was back then, but you can bet your neck it was not in the region of 9million)
If we are going to have some kind of information, then at least it should be balanced out with equal space being given to the reasons why we should leave.

Being in the EU is like being in an abusive relationship...it saps your courage, saps your energy,saps your confidence saps your money. You think the partnership will change....and it will, but not in your favour.
WE really need to be OUT.

Yes it did surprise me - when the butcher gives me a parcel and says it contains beef steak I don't expect to find a pork sausage inside!

I listened to part of the Commons Debate this afternoon and wondered what the Minister thought he'd sent out when he described the effort as "a sixteen page explanatory booklet". He's been hoodwinked - half of those sixteen pages had morphed into photos by the time it reached me. He did make it clear when he spoke that anyone who wants more details concerning the content of the booklet should go online. My current thoughts are that I don't know whether I can be bothered.

Excepting for the cost and the layout, it doesn't bother me that the government produced the policy booklet as I receive, or did receive, other government policy booklets viz Annual Inland Revenue bumph, also various annual notifications on various legal requirements for Employment Regs, etc.

[Margaret Pilkington]

There is something of a difference when you receive other government literature....because it is relating to legal requirements, regulations and as such, is explanatory and informative....whereas in contrast this is propaganda.
Nothing informative, or explanatory....just the biased viewpoint of one side with no attempt do anything which shows the other side of the picture.
It is not balanced, it is not principled and it is doubtful how much truth there is in it....but then what should we expect from politicians who believe we all have the brain power of a retarded gnat?

[accyman]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

I suggest you send it back with some comment or other, so the tax payer doesn't get stung again use this address

Freepost RSBB-XRZT-XTXE
The Conservative Party Foundation
30 Millbank
LONDON
SW1P 4DP

here's what others are doing:-

The 11 Best Ways Britons Are Dumping David Cameron's £9M Pro-EU Propaganda Leaflet

dont forget to give it a few circuits of the toilet seat before you put it in an envelope

preferably the underneath of one

[Laatab]

It's a bit of a conundrum. A case of damned if you do or damned if you don't. It comes down to, at the end of the day, do you want to be ruled by the sleazy casual criminals that infest Westminster. Or do you prefer the prospect of being part of what will become the fourth Reich in all but name!

Laa

[Margaret Pilkington]

There is no conundrum in it for me.
Those sleazy criminals in Westminster are subject to being voted for.
The mandarins in Brussels(I am not talking about the MEP's......they have less influence on policy than a mosquito on a rhino's bum) are just as sleazy, just as corrupt and we have no power to kick them out.

Our only way is to get out.....right out.

The so called deal that David Cameron has elicited has been denounced as a bit of 'bazaar haggling' by Count Lambsdorf(who is something of a bigwig in the EU).

Now if someone like this is telling you that the deal is not going to be honoured and you STILL vote to stay in, then you are quite clearly certifiable and should not be allowed out on your own.

[Morecambe Ex Pat]

I don't usually sign petitions but I made an exception in this case. I think the case is simple, if they put all the EU facts in a leaflet, by default, they would produce a propaganda document in favour of leaving.
All this scaremongering, that nobody will deal with our little tiny nation is just a tactic to frighten us into voting to stay in. Outside the EU, we would be masters of our own destiny although our leaders would be required to grow some, if we are to be a super power once more.