Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[accybeme]

I can’t see anything to be pleased about with this outcome, her deal is bound to be voted down by MP’s and if that’s the case I can only see that we will have 2nd referendum but with only 2 options on the ballot paper back May’s deal or remain in Europe

[Margaret Pilkington]

Nowhere have I said I was pleased.
I just think this is a better outcome than her being unseated.
The exit strategy is still crap...but putting someone else in charge would not have altered that because(from what I have read), the strategy has been signed off by those in Brussels...which is why TM was running round Europe yesterday trying to get some support

No, as it stands, the exit strategy will not pass through Parliament.
A vote of 'no confidence' would have meant a bigger mess, it could even have provoked the fall of the government and a snap election.

Why on earth would remain be on the ballot paper of a second referendum?
That was decided by the previous vote.
There should be NO second referendum because it undermines the will of the electiorate.

[accybeme]

Why on earth would remain be on the ballot paper of a second referendum?
That was decided by the previous vote.
There should be NO second referendum because it undermines the will of the electiorate.
(Just the way I see the situation)
Remain would be on the ballot paper because that’s what the majority of MP’s want and would not dare put the leave option on the ballot paper again
Agree the referendum was a positive vote to leave and there should not be a second
But if May’s deal is voted down as expected, where else does she go the only option I can see is a 2nd referendum

[Margaret Pilkington]

Accybeme, with the greatest respect it is NOT about what the MP's want....it is about what the electorate told their elected representatives that they MUST deliver.

MP' s seem to forget that they are the servants of the people.
They were put there by the little people....like you and me, putting our X in their box.(and if they do a bad job, then the next time their is an election, you withdraw your X . The is the principle of democracy)
For too long our elected representatives have been hand laws and regulations by those unelected people in Brussels.....so they do not want to have to earn their corn anymore by governing us.

As for your question about where we go from here?
The answer is fairly simple. On 29th of March we leave the EU regardless of what has not been negotiated to us by Brussels.
There will be no trade deal, no customs union, no free movement, no diktats handed down by the ECJ......and maybe the 39 billion will stay in our coffers.

I am sure that the threat of this happening is just as worrying for the EU....where are they going to be getting the money from to fill the hole left by GB's contribution?
And if they want to place tariffs on their goods and service, then we look elsewhere for those goods....grow them or make them ourselves.

The big problem with the referendum was that the political elite badly misjudged the feeling up and down the country.
They were sure that we would vote to stay in.
That just shows how very out of touch these folk are.....especially so, North of the Watford gap.
Had they thought that the outcome would be to leave....they would not have given us a referendum.
We certainly do not need another one.

[accybeme]

While I agree with most of your post, I do not believe parliament will let us crash out with no deal, to me that only leaves two options withdraw article 50 or a 2nd referendum, the trouble has always been that while the majority of (us the people) wanted to leave the EU, the majority of MP’s wanted the UK to remain in EU

[cashman]

Originally Posted by accybeme

While I agree with most of your post, I do not believe parliament will let us crash out with no deal, to me that only leaves two options withdraw article 50 or a 2nd referendum, the trouble has always been that while the majority of (us the people) wanted to leave the EU, the majority of MP’s wanted the UK to remain in EU

Also these M.P.s as yeh call em, i call em SNAKES, want to remain in their seats, i dont know no-one does, but it will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by accybeme

While I agree with most of your post, I do not believe parliament will let us crash out with no deal, to me that only leaves two options withdraw article 50 or a 2nd referendum, the trouble has always been that while the majority of (us the people) wanted to leave the EU, the majority of MP’s wanted the UK to remain in EU

The situation is that over the years what was a trading arrangement morphed into a political entity....this happened without our permission.
There were times when we should have been consulted and weren't....because back then the leaders were savvy enough to know we would not buy it.

When I voted to leave, I made sure that I had read as much as possible about the EU and the consequences of leaving....and not just from the pap that the popular media would have us believe.
I made an informed choice...because that is how I do things.

I certainly did not vote for a Hokey Cokey, half in half out deal.
We were promised that No deal was preferable to a bad deal....and what is currently on the table is as bad a deal as it can get....so we should NOT be taking it up.

Parliament won't vote this through in its current format....but then that leaves a no deal scenario....nowhere was it said that if we did not like the offer we would revoke article 50.....because if that is done then we do not leave and the illusion of democracy....letting the people choose, is trashed.
Equally sending us out to vote again, means democracy is trashed to because it undermines the voting process.
Are we going to get into a situation where, at a General Election, we don't agree with the result so we can have another go....and another until we get the result that we like??
That is NOT democracy.

If, right at the very beginning, it had been pointed out to the negotiators(and that's a laugh in itself) that these were the terms we wanted to leave on.....and told them that was it....if they could not agree then we would leave without a deal, what do you think might have happened?

This is Brinkmanship...plain and simple....a Mexican stand off....see who blinks first.
It is in the interests of the EU to secure a deal too....because without contributions from the UK they are stuffed....because I cannot see Germany and France wanting to make up the deficit....and the PIGS countries can't make up the deficit because the EU has screwed them....which is exactly what they will do to us if we do not get out.

[Margaret Pilkington]

The referendum should have been before John Major committed us to the treaty of Maastricht in 1992....because prior to that the EEC was trade based....and in principle(but not in practice) a good idea.

[monkey hanger]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The referendum should have been before John Major committed us to the treaty of Maastricht in 1992....because prior to that the EEC was trade based....and in principle(but not in practice) a good idea.

think they knew what the answer would have been if they had had one then. as you said earlier though i doubt wether any MP north or south of the watford gap has any real feel for their votors and do they really care either.

[Mark2009]

Corbyn has just tabled a vote of no confidence, internet says "in the Prime Minister" but presume it means in the Government.
Mark

[Mark2009]

Update, apparently it is not the same as a traditional vote of no confidence in the Government. Opinion is it may have Political force but is at the least embarrassing for TM
Mark

[Exile on Spencer St]

No, I think it is the PM.
Corbyn doesn’t want to bring down the Government because he doesn’t want to risk having to deal with the EU.
By the way, the petition to leave with no deal has just overtaken the petition to have another referendum.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229963

[Margaret Pilkington]

Thank you for adding that link.
I have just signed this petition.

[cashman]

Cheers owd mate for the link have also signed. To me Corbyn is proving what a useless prat he is, just playing politics.

[DaveinGermany]

+1, Did you read the prattle spouted by the response team? 3 million eu citizens living in UK 1 million Brits in Europe (me being one of them) if the eu-rinal & its ways are so wonderful, how comes there is such disparity in the numbers?