Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[Margaret Pilkington]

He was not wrong.

[hilleluk]

NO DEAL is the only way to go

[Margaret Pilkington]

Donald Tusk has dared to suggest that as the deal being offered is unacceptable....and a NO DEAL is also unacceptable (to whom), Brexit should be cancelled.
That would suit the EU right down to the ground.
They could then stop worrying about how to fill the Financial black hole that our leaving would provoke.

If they had really wanted us to stay, then they would have done more to try and make it worthwhile.

All that said, I want to be out....right out.

[accybeme]

Sorry Margaret, I can’t see the pro-Europe House of Commons allowing us to leave without a deal, my guess is a second referendum or withdraw article 50 on the 28th of March

[monkey hanger]

Originally Posted by Ryewolf90

It's quite a big defeat too with a majority of 230, MPs voted by 432 votes to 202 to reject the deal.

are you really surprised. as the 432 votes against iclude all the remainers and those who wanted a proper leave and not this botched up deal that appeals to none.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by accybeme

Sorry Margaret, I can’t see the pro-Europe House of Commons allowing us to leave without a deal, my guess is a second referendum or withdraw article 50 on the 28th of March

It should NOT be about what the House of Commons want, nor the House of Lords.
Those people are in their positions(paid very well) because they are supposed to SERVE the electorate.
They are our representative. Not there to foist their wishes on us...that is not how it works.

They are bound to be pro Europe...it means that they have less work to do....being handed rules and regs from another country? That does not sound like sovereignty to me.
I truly cannot see a second referendum. This would be a knife to the heart of democracy....and suppose that referendum created more problems....maybe from those of us who sincerely want to be rid of the EU....would that then necessitate a third...or would it be best of five?
How is it democracy if it can be overturned by a small number of politicians who want to be considered for tickets on the gravy train?

If there is a second referendum then it should only be about the terms of leaving....not about staying...that question was settled back in 2016.



The EU would be delighted if they finally managed to trounce democratic freedoms in this country...as they have done in Greece and Italy.
The UK has been a thorn in the side of the EU for a long time....long may we be so.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Not there to foist their wishes on us...that is not how it works.

Unfortunately foisting their wishes IS how it works, though it shouldn't be.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The UK has been a thorn in the side of the EU for a long time....long may we be so.

I would rather stop being a thorn in their side and become independent of the whole corrupt bunch of 'Paper Roses', once we are out, it is they, not us that will continue to struggle.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Less, you are right.

There is no reason why we can't leave and still be a thorn in their side.
We would be a thorn in their side if we left and prospered...because they want us to fail....and fail epically.

[Exile on Spencer St]

So all the Remoaners are now putting their hopes on another EU referendum and they tell us we need one because (second time around) we stupid, old, racists didn't know what Leave meant. Now, apparently we all do.

We only had a referendum because the political parties couldn't agree on anything about the EU. And the last two years has shown that they still can't. It seems Parliament can only offer a so-called 'no deal' [i.e. clean break] or staying in.

So, if there was to be another referendum, my view is that it should ask exactly the same question as before - do you want to leave or remain in the EU? No political chicanery with smart-arse options, splitting one side two or three ways. We now all know everything there is to know, so why ask a different question?

However, if the Remoaning MPs in both the Labour and Tory parties think a different but equally narrow result will end their agony, they must be more naïve than they seem.

Think about this analysis:
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majo...eu-referendum/

This is why Komrade Korbyn, especially, and Theresa Maybe are desperate to avoid having another referendum before a general election.

If there was another referendum first, which narrowly decided to remain, I suspect that not every person who voted leave, and felt betrayed, would continue to give their votes unthinkingly in the next a general election to either Labour or Conservative.

All it would take, as happened in France under Macron in less than one year, would be for a new pro-Brexit party to form in time for a general election. And we all know that for a party to win an election doesn't require 52% of a 72% voter turnout.
Nigel Farage for PM, anyone?

[DaveinGermany]

Well the confidence vote is done & the tories are still in power (by 19 votes) the vote was 306 against - 325 for. Not a vast margin & certainly doesn't inspire confidence for the future negotiations.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Well the confidence vote is done & the tories are still in power (by 19 votes) the vote was 306 against - 325 for. Not a vast margin & certainly doesn't inspire confidence for the future negotiations.

That was bound to happen dave.

[Ryewolf90]

And we're still no closer to what happens next than we were 2 years ago... I wouldn't trust them to negotiate their way out of a paper bag....

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Ryewolf90

And we're still no closer to what happens next than we were 2 years ago... I wouldn't trust them to negotiate their way out of a paper bag....

True but would trust Labour even less.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by cashman

That was bound to happen dave.

True Cashy, but still disappointing. DisMay said she's now prepared to talk to & work with other parties, in other words, give up even more ground to those opposed to a clean no deal exit from the eu-rinal.

So eu "negotiations" all over again, but this time instead of kowtowing to the creatures in Brussels, she'll be kotowing to our home grown anti democracy creatures.

[AccyMad]

Now is the time to put self interest aside & work together she says, the time to do that was 2 years ago Theresa - the statement she just delivered is too little, too late.
The whole thing has been a total shambles from the start & it's not going to get any better any time soon