Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by cashman

Only the STUPID believe what they want to believe, The truth is that.

There are three versions of the truth....there is your truth, my truth and then there is something in between the two....and the 'my' and 'yours' are collective terms and not aimed at you personally Cashy.

Most folk are not stupid, but they do believe what they want to believe....and they may not even realise that they make this discriminination.

[cashman]

Can't accept that Margaret, the truth was remain or leave anyone thinks different is stupid or very devious, its that simple to me.

[Hill Walker]

Isn't politics the art of the devious?

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Hill Walker

Isn't politics the art of the devious?

It certainly is but it aint just M.P.s etc thats devious.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by cashman

Can't accept that Margaret, the truth was remain or leave anyone thinks different is stupid or very devious, its that simple to me.

Yes...of course that was the question.
The problem arose when we chose the Leave option.
It did not fit with what our politicians expected....so they have worked tirelessly to thwart the will of the people....and the deal offered to TM was just that....it was promoted by the government as the only option....and it was supposed to be leave...but even a blind man can see that it ties us to the EU with the only chance of getting out(is not getting out) is with their permission......and we both know that they are never in a million years going to let us go.....but the government will tell you that they have fulfilled the wishes of the electorate by getting a deal that allows us(on the twelfth of never) to leave.

It is all about interpretation.
On the ballot paper it did not say 'leave with a deal'
It did not say 'leave with no deal'.
We were hoodwinked by the sound bite 'leave means leave' (unless it is the deal offered by the EU)
We were also assured by the PM that No Deal was preferable to a bad deal.....so then you need to define what constitutes a bad deal(this one fits that bill,perfectly)
You see Cashy we had our expectations raised. we did not consider all the dirty tricks that would be pulled by the likes of Dominic Grieve, Keir Starmer, Ken Clarke et al and the project fear that was used to scare the electorate.

Not to mention those who considered the people who voted to leave as brainless idiots, and boring old farts...the same boring old farts that heaved this country out of the brown stuff after the last war (but we aren't supposed to mention that are we) the boring old farts that the young voters wished dead, for us wanting to take back the freedoms that our fathers fought so hard to obtain.
So if that sounds bitter and twisted, it is because it IS.
I feel that we, as a nation, have been betrayed....sold down the river by a few hundred career politicians who care for only their own agendas.

[cashman]

Ken Clarke Blair, and others thought it was a good idea to join the Euro way back, shows how much those tosspots know dont it?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Cashy, they were not doing stuff relating to the EU with a view to making life better for us...just to further their own agendas.
We all know that hubristic Blair wanted to be a big wheel in the EU.

[hilleluk]

Heseltine used to be a publisher, I think the company was Haymarket Press.

In the early 1980s he bought farmland, the reason being the EU were paying landowner's to plant trees, He makes over 1 million pounds a year on this venture.
Why do you think he want's to stay in the EU.

I think it's because he like's tree's...I am a thick LEAVE voter, NO DEAL IS BETTER

[accybeme]

two years of deceit by Theresa May publicly advocating her support for the referendum vote to leave, while all along working to stay in the EU

[cashman]

Originally Posted by accybeme

two years of deceit by Theresa May publicly advocating her support for the referendum vote to leave, while all along working to stay in the EU

Thats her job, to con the serfs.

[Margaret Pilkington]

You cannot control someone who does not trust you...so ALL politicians of every persuasion will tell you what THEY think you want to hear....that is the first fundamental element of control...the second is to let you believe they are on YOUR side....the only side they are on is the one that will do them most good.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I have just been looking at a Yougov Poll that suggests those who now support Remain have overtaken those who would wish to leave.
How many people were canvassed?.....1070.

Now, would someone out there who matriculated in maths please tell me what percentage of 17.4 million this represents.
I can't work it out but I am not so thick as to not know that this cannot be representative of the electoral vote....and that as such it is meaningless.

[accybeme]

Agreed how can you produce a poll with any credibility with such a small sample (1070)
But I can believe that the remainers now outnumber us leavers with all the scare stories portrayed in every source of media, the sheep must be scared to do anything else

[Margaret Pilkington]

Do you believe any of these scare stories?
Think about what was said about what would happen if we voted to leave?
Did any of this prognostications come close to coming true?
No, they did not.
The governor of the Bank of England has 'talked down' the financial growth of this country....likewise The CBI have talked down the possibilities of success in trade.
Now, if other countries see these dismal predictions...the fact that we do not have confidence in our ability to rise above difficulties...not good is it?
As for believing this poll...it is hogwash...but again, folk will see that(not read all the article...where the small number of participants is buried) and they, like you ....will believe it.

I don't know anyone who would change the way they voted and I have read of a few who voted Remain and because of the antics of those negotiators in Brussels, would now vote leave.

Polly Toynbee observed(rather insensitively) that today was the day when the remainers equalled the leavers...as a number of those who voted leave had died.

That is the measure of remainers
These people have levelled insults at those of us who voted leave....now my feeling is that once you feel the need to resort to insults....you have lost the argument.

This is what has been part of the difficulty in sorting out a deal....there has been pressure from groups who are sour about the result of a democratic vote.
They want to sell their right to democracy and they do not care what the price is.

[Exile on Spencer St]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I have just been looking at a Yougov Poll that suggests those who now support Remain have overtaken those who would wish to leave....

Yeah, and the same polls predicted we’d all vote remain in 2016 and was why Scameron, being a public relations consultant, decided to have the referendum.