Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[Margaret Pilkington]

You are right....and strangely enough, the margins are exactly the same.
The only count that matters is the number of votes that were cast that required our politicians to,get off their haunches and get to setting out our laws rather than let .Brussels hand them down

[DaveinGermany]

Reading a comments section on a Brexit article earlier, one contributor pointed out that a number of the "big" political figures bumping their gums about a second referendum, Blair, Brown & Major certainly didn't give any credence to such requests prior to signing the UK up to various treaties during their tenure in power.


Funny owd thing that!

[Mark2009]

So it seems that the cross party talks have either failed or are failing and that the PMs plan B now appears to be asking the EU to remove the Backstop. I havent heard that the EU are at all prepared to renegotiate so I am not sure where that leaves us , maybe apart from PM running the clock down in the hope that MPs will accept her original deal as opposed to No Deal? I'm a bit lost.

Mark

[Mark2009]

Interestingly, if the betting odds are any indicator, a certain bookmaker is offering 2/1 on that there will be no EU referendum this year and 6/4 that we will leave with no deal
Mark

[Margaret Pilkington]

I think it is very unlikely that the EU will ditch the backstop..it would be what kept us chained to this unsavoury bunch....so I think it is looking like a disorderly exit.

That is unless the traitorous backbenchers bring in some sort of amendment(assisted by the iniquitous speaker- John Bercow) to prevent a no deal Brexit(though I think this would have to go through parliamentary process and it would,I hope run out of time).

I was talking with daughter today about the possibility of a GE....we both said what was the point of voting if our votes meant so little...and daughter said she would not vote...I said I would vote.....the last thing this country needs is for Worzel Gummidge to get into number 10.

[Exile on Spencer St]

Some good articles on the Briefings for Brexit web site, including this one.

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/ironi...-border-issue/

[Margaret Pilkington]

A very well reasoned article, clearly explained and without all the scare tactics of the general media.

I object to the banner on the Sky News programs which proclaims 'Brexit Crisis' this feeds into the fear factor that some may feel about the issues.
It is almost subliminal conditioning.
Why can't it be termed Brexit Update....or Brexit News, or Brexit Bulletin.
All TV programs seem to portray everything about our exit from the EU in the most negative terms.

Blooming heck, it is a good job our parents and grandparents were not so Lily livered when they were faced with the difficulties caused by two wars.

It seems plain to me that our MP's and the government have forgotten how to govern....how to run the country.
Maybe it is because for four decades they have got used to being handed their orders from Brussels....they are all ring rusty.
Wait until the next election....I cannot see the electorate being in anything like a forgiving mood....some backsides are going to be permanently removed from the green leather of the HOC.

[cashman]

Our M.P.s as far as i'm concerned have PROVED beyond all doubt, they are NOT fit to represent the general public, Most of them from ALL parties voted to REMAIN, Cameron gave the public the Referendum and mainly have refused to accept the public choice. that to me proves beyond ALL doubt they are not fit to represent us.

[Less]

Originally Posted by cashman

Our M.P.s as far as i'm concerned have PROVED beyond all doubt, they are NOT fit to represent the general public, Most of them from ALL parties voted to REMAIN, Cameron gave the public the Referendum and mainly have refused to accept the public choice. that to me proves beyond ALL doubt they are not fit to represent us.

Our own M.P. proves what you say, remember before he was elected he was telling us he would fight for a referendum if elected?
What a turn around as soon as he got his bum on the seat and he was following the party line informing us that the EU was far too complex an issue for we mere mortals to understand and that it should be left in the hands of our representatives to make decisions.

I don't see anything complicated, we want out they want to keep us in and have us pay through the nose for them to have the privilege of blocking anything that we may want or need.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes...you are spot on Less.
The people in the House of Commons are only there because WE put them there.
When our own representative makes derogatory remarks about our intelligence....implying that we are too ill educated to vote...he needs to remember that the same people he is levelling these insults at, are the ones who voted for him.

We are all capable of seeing the evidence of our own eyes....we are all capable of determining whether(on the evidence of the actions of those 'negotiators' in Brussels) whether we think the UK is a valid member of the EU, a friend, an ally....and from where I stand they have treated us with utter contempt.
The whole ethos of the EU project is to demolish democracy, brick by brick, country by country.
Our MEP's have absolutely NO influence over rules and laws passed by the EU.
They are ALL decided by commissioners...unelected, cannot be removed, brook no challenges or appeals.
Is this what our Fathers and Grandfathers fought for?
To be ruled by someone who knows nothing of us...other than that we provide a hefty sum of money to be squandered by these faceless bureaucrats, cares nothing about us and would have us by the short and curlies if The PM's deal is accepted.

I want to be OUT....no customs deal, no single market, no,free movement, no ECJ meddling.
Right out not a half in/out to placate those who fear losing their place on the gravy train.

A thought strikes me....MP's never leave Parliament as poor men, do they?

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

A thought strikes me....MP's never leave Parliament as poor men, do they?

Financially rich, however most are leaving, morally bankrupt.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Less

Financially rich, however most are leaving, morally bankrupt.

Again Less...spot on.
The Bank of Morals does not pay for a life lived high on the hog....the life to which most MP's have become accustomed...and really that is all they care about because most of them are career politicians.
They went into politics without morals...so you cannot expect them to come out of politics having grown them!
Gone are the days when men and women went into politics with lofty ideals of bettering the lives of their constituents....and the public in general.
I view most politicians of today with the same regard I have for dog muck....I try not to get it on my shoes.

[Less]

I always thought M.P.'s were self employed looked for an answer, everything about them vague and it seems to be a grey area, I did find this:-
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-em...of-Parliament#

Without any proof of their employment status, I think we can conclude that,

The majority of M.P.'s work for themselves.

It's time they took a cold hard look at themselves and started working for the rest of us.

[Margaret Pilkington]

The penny drops.
Of course they work for themselves Less.
While they are in the heady atmosphere of the capital, they are making contacts, networking....looking for the main chance should their constituents give them the boot.
They make more in their political life than many of their constituents will make in a lifetime of hard physical graft.

[Mark2009]

It is interesting that people in the past had the same problems we have today. George Orwell wrote-
All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia.
Mark