Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[cashman]

Originally Posted by accybeme

cat among the pigeons Nigel Farage new Brexit Party

Has that actually happened? have heard rumours oer this for a few month now but seen nowt concrete? also think it may well be a bit late for that meself.

[accybeme]

Yes the Brexit party has been officially filed & recorded as a party


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Margaret Pilkington]

I also think it is too late.
There are rumblings about the Labour Party splitting because of the possibility of the deselection of the moderate Labour MP's....as opposed to those supporting JC.
This would not surprise me. The Labour Party has lost its way....it did so back in 1997 when it became New Labour(aka conservative lite party)

But like I said in a previous post, this will just mean that there is little chance of a party getting a convincing, workable majority.

[cashman]

If Labour M.P.s split as said today, then the Torys will walk the next election in my view.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I am not so sure about that...it will divide the cake into yet another portion....it will probably take voters from all parties....leading to there being less chance of a viable majority for any one party.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Apparently this new party was registered with the electoral commission on the 8th of February and Nigel Farage says that 100,000 people have signed up to it.

That is only a drop in the ocean and I don't have much hope of it being a success.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I am not so sure about that...it will divide the cake into yet another portion....it will probably take voters from all parties....leading to there being less chance of a viable majority for any one party.

Have to say i am pretty certain Margaret, the only party that could depose em were Labour to me, that is now less likely.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Cashy, I wish I had your confidence.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Cashy, I wish I had your confidence.

Well its pretty simple to me, who else could possibly defeat teresa may? before these 7 left?

[Exile on Spencer St]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I do not see that solving anything until proportional representation is implemented...It will just further dilute the options and lead to more wishy-washy government because no one has a majority...

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I am not so sure about that...it will divide the cake into yet another portion....it will probably take voters from all parties....leading to there being less chance of a viable majority for any one party.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Apparently this new party was registered with the electoral commission on the 8th of February and Nigel Farage says that 100,000 people have signed up to it.
That is only a drop in the ocean and I don't have much hope of it being a success.

Margaret, a very rare bit of muddled thinking from you, unless i’m misreading things. I think proportional representation can often end up with “wishy-washy” government, sometimes with extreme minorities having the casting vote.

I don’t think it’s too late for a Brexit party. This debate is not going to go away for many years and, at the next general election, Brexit will still be a live topic.
If May gets her ‘deal’, we’ll be neither out nor in at the next election. Or maybe Bercow and his metroplitan mates can ensure there’s no ‘no deal’ on March 29th and extend Article 50 in the hope of having an election before having to make a decision.
Both ‘big’ parties will continue to equivocate on Brexit so voting for either will not resolve matters and deliver what the last referendum demanded.
But, if all the Leave voters backed the Brexit Party, even if just for one election, they could, as 50+% of the electorate, easily win the day (again!)
We told ‘em once, and I’m happy to tell ‘em again.

[Margaret Pilkington]

No, I just don't see how a 'first past the post' system of voting ensures a government that has been voted for by the electorate when there are more than two parties in the running.
First past the post works fine if there are only two parties, because the electorate know that their vote means something(or at least that is the theory).
But when there are multiple parties then you can NEVER have government that was voted for by the majority.
If the winning party polls 37% of the votes and the two other losing parties polled 31and32% respectively, then 63% of the voters did NOT vote for the winning party....so the majority of the electorate feels duped.

Proportional representation has not been implemented because it is felt that the electorate is too dim to understand the principle....it would mean casting a vote for candidates in order of your preference....and they think we are too thick to get this....but it would ensure that the majority of the electorate got the government they had voted for a fairer system than we have now...if that is wishy washy, it is because the candidates have no real interest in following their constituents wishes.

Probably most of the disaffection with politics has been caused by career politicians and champagne socialists.....those who have entered politics to gain advantages for themselves.
Those who have not worked at a 'real'(for want of a better word) job.
They are the ones who know very little of the lives that the little people...their voters, live.

So I hope that clarifies my meaning on that score.

I fully agree that the repercussions from Brexit are going to be with us for some time....but I still think it is too late for a Brexit Party(political, that is).
Come the 29th of March we will be out....with either the duff deal that leaves us hokey cokeying....or The default position, which means we revert to WTO rules( though article 24 says that we can continue trading with the EU without tariffs being applied for at least a couple of years....but the politicians don't tell you that do they)
Unless of course there are moves to extend Article 50(Barnier says he would NOT authorise that)....or the very worst case....they revoke Article 50 (there will be riots)

As for another referendum...that is untenable because it drastically undermines the democratic process.
If they did not respect one referendum, then why would they respect a second or a third...why not make it best of five?

[Margaret Pilkington]

If you want to talk wishy washy governments...think Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrat coalition government....that is what you get with a multi party system.
The current government had to go cap in hand to garner support from the DUP....for the very same reason....a poor electoral system that does not support a majority when there are more than two parties vying for votes.

Now, if this does not make sense to you....I don't know how better to explain it.
(I like to think that my mental powers are clean and sharp...but then, I would...wouldn't I? )

[Less]

Best of five?
There shouldn't even be a debate about a second referendum the voters in all their illeducated mass voted, the vote demands out, not a debate it was fair and square, we are prepared for any consequences no matter how much trouble they may or not be.
Let democracy rule as is right and legal.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

As for another referendum...that is untenable because it drastically undermines the democratic process.
If they did not respect one referendum, then why would they respect a second or a third...why not make it best of five?

I agree entirely Less.

The other thing that shows the calibre(or more accurately, the lack of it) is that these MP's who have defected to a 'non party' with no policies, no manifesto, no mandate from their constituents want to stay in the house as independents....remainers all of them!

You have to ask yourself 'should they be in the Palace of Westminster, or should they be in a crèche '
They do not respect the views of the people who voted for them, they do not respect the party under whose flag they have travelled....they throw a tantrum because they do not like a democratically reached decision...They stoop to low tactics to try and manipulate what THEY want....they take their ball and they go home.

They are paid handsomely and this is how they behave.
None of them has done the decent thing...resigned, created a by-election whereby their constituents could let them know exactly what they think of their performance.
Ill principled, self serving egotists...the lot of them.
Beneath contempt.

[Less]

I fancied a quick google so I had one, do you know there are no restrictions on the ill educated voting in the U.K.?
In fact claiming that brexit was won by ill educated xenophobic morons is proof that you aren't fit to represent the people entitled to vote.

Are there any restrictions on voting for people with learning disabilities or mental health problems?
No. Nearly everyone with a mental health problem or learning disability who is of voting age is entitled to vote in the UK General Election.

Taken from:-
https://www.mwcscot.org.uk/about-us/...eral-election/

Fair does, I haven't read of a politician that claims we exit voters are mentally incapable of voting but, if the above members of our society are deemed capable of voting there is no excuse for them (politicians) to put the blame on a persons mental capabilities just because the result wasn't what they wanted.

That is democracy.