Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[Margaret Pilkington]

Well, I haven't been to either of them......but I think I would too.
It was the French finance minister who called us little.
I would rather be little and self governing than be a satellite state of Federal Europe where we have to do as we are told and cannot democratically remove those who do not understand or care about our wishes.

[Less]

From what I understand both make a profit without being part of the EU, so I think we should follow their examples.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Less

From what I understand both make a profit without being part of the EU, so I think we should follow their examples.

Thats what i understood to be the case, the idiot "Frog" may have helped brexit. pmsl

[Margaret Pilkington]

Now George Osborne has stepped into the fray with scare tactics that tell us how we will all be worse off and that the basic rate of tax could rise by 8%.......this is based on some sort of finacial 'model' but in truth this is just speculation.

Maybe we would save by not having to school EU migrant children. Look after the health of EU health tourists, not send tax credits out of the country.

Maybe we could actually choose who we let into this country.
Maybe we could make our own rules....give our MPs a job to do instead of letting them think it is all going to be done by the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

So far I have neither seen nor read anything which makes me consider my current position.

[cashman]

To be perfectly honest from what i have read and took on board, its made me harden my position, the sooner OUT the better.

[Less]

I have come to the conclusion that the reason our politicos from all parties want us to stay in is because, at the moment if something needs doing they can say, 'terribly sorry, we would do something about it but it's the EU, they are stopping us doing anything'.
Get rid of the EU and they will have to actually do something instead of passing the buck.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Less

I have come to the conclusion that the reason our politicos from all parties want us to stay in is because, at the moment if something needs doing they can say, 'terribly sorry, we would do something about it but it's the EU, they are stopping us doing anything'.
Get rid of the EU and they will have to actually do something instead of passing the buck.

Done a bit more thinking (twice in one day) they've got us coming and going.

Vote to stay and the excuse is 'It's the EU's Fault'.

Vote to leave and it's 'Well had we remained in the EU perhaps something could have been done'.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes Less, it will never be their fault.
It will be our fault for not understanding the so called information they have deigned to dole out....Whatever the ills of the country, they have a readymade excuse...what is worse is that the British public seem to swallow it.
Have we really all lost the power of reasoning and critical analysis?

These politicians in power right now(and those in opposition) can only presume how life would be if we left the EU...None of them are old enough to know what it was like before the EU.

And worse there are three types of exit.
One where we are neither in or out.....we follow their rules but have no say in how they are made......one where we have a relationship like the one Canada has( don't ask me....I haven't a clue what this really means. I will have to go away and do some reading up)
Then there is the totally out version.
According to the George Osborne......all of these are going to cost us more than the subs to stay in.
I STILL want to be OUT!

[cashman]

Have just been watching the news on Sky, a recent "Poll" in France has said 53% of frogs also want a E.U. referendum, that comes a surprise to me, but just goes to show, the rubbish we are being told by those who want to remain.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Would that be a referendum to leave the EU Cashy?
I must've missed seeing that.
The French only follow the EU rules that they like anyway. They don't seem to be slavish in following the edicts from Brussels.....not like us.
It is time the whole organisation was broken up.....and the individual nations were allowed to govern themselves democratically and in the way that suits them.
Then if Greece(or anyone else for that matter) gets into financial difficulties, it is up to them to sort it out.

This has been a social and political experiment that has failed.
Why do we keep trying to make something which has failed to work, more workable?

[cashman]

Yes it was, so despite whats said, one of the "Founder Members" many like oer here are far from happy with the E.U. By the way Spain were exactly the same when i lived yon, only followed when it suited em.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Did you notice the ominous silence about the Dutch having their own referendum and something like 65% wanting to leave the EU.
I did not see or hear one mention of this in any of the TV broadcasts, or in any of the papers I read.
Shouldn't we be told that there are other member states who are equally dissatisfied with how the EU runs the show.
We are being told that everything in the EU garden is lovely.....this stinks.
In the paper today Junker has said that the EU has meddled too much in what should be sovereign affairs. He didn't say that there were ant real plans to change this though.

I am like Cashy, the more I see, hear, read....and the harder my resolve is to vote OUT!

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Did you notice the ominous silence about the Dutch having their own referendum and something like 65% wanting to leave the EU.
I did not see or hear one mention of this in any of the TV broadcasts, or in any of the papers I read.
Shouldn't we be told that there are other member states who are equally dissatisfied with how the EU runs the show.
We are being told that everything in the EU garden is lovely.....this stinks.
In the paper today Junker has said that the EU has meddled too much in what should be sovereign affairs. He didn't say that there were ant real plans to change this though.

I am like Cashy, the more I see, hear, read....and the harder my resolve is to vote OUT!

Look through recent History, if they don't want us to know they won't tell us.

A prime example was the Falklands war, all the T.V. news was closed down, we were only fed news from an embarrassed and embarrassing, junior civil servant
and then it was only news that couldn't compromise the situation by telling us anything that could help the Argentinians (I'd have had a job travelling the 7,378 miles to Argie to inform them, all the bus services to there had been suspended for the duration!).

The rest of the world knew exactly what was going on, we knew nothing (or at least the 95% of us that couldn't be trusted or couldn't understand what was going on knew nothing).

If they could block news from the T.V. and the internet to keep us ignorant about other EU Countries, they would.

We have finally got a referendum lets not allow their tactics to stop us from doing what we know to be correct.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes Less, that is why I trust very little of what those with a vested interest want to tell us.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Yes Less, that is why I trust very little of what those with a vested interest want to tell us.

yeh Margaret, but still plenty of mugs that do.