Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[monkey hanger]

Originally Posted by Less

No Margaret, we need a PM that WILL fulfil the democratic result of all that voted that day, it's not just the Brexit vote that is being screwed it is the whole of our nation.

if there actually is someone like that i,m sure the remainers will use their dirty tricks brigade to find or make up stuff about them to pull this persons position down. for me its a near impossible job.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by cashman

Hammond says on news this morning if in October there has been no deal, then if the leader says out, he will vote against it, that demonstrates perfectly to me how much the vote of the people means to these pieces of CRAP.

Well of course he will Cashy...he is Remain through and through.....and one of the reasons that TM could not get agreement was because she, her advisers and many of her cabinet had not the stomach to leave.
After all it means that they would have to put in some effort to govern, rather than just rubber stamping edicts from Brussels.

But....and it is a big but....anyone opposing leaving without a deal runs the risk of triggering a general election.
This would be a risk because there is the fear that this would allow the Marxist into number ten.

The only way that would be averted is for a party(any party) to say they would be prepared to take the country out of the EU without accepting the withdrawal agreement....I feel sure that whichever party did this....they would be assured of a victory.
But then again....a lot of trust in what politicians say has been lost....and it will take time to be rebuilt.....and in the case of the major parties I think this is damn nigh impossible.

Just my opinion.

[Margaret Pilkington]

As for the letter from our representative at the Houses of Parliament.

It is basically trying to justify his actions down there....pointing out that he voted 'to the letter of the Manifesto'....that he voted to retain a customs union (he says this does not tie us to the EU....although being in such a union means that we continue to pay in to Brussels, have no say on regulations that might be passed, are still under the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

He validates this stance by noting that Turkey is NOT an EU member but is part of the Customs union.
What he fails to say is that Turkey has ambition to join the EU....and that they are only in a PARTIAL customs union, which excludes services and agricultural produce).

He believes that being in the customs union would guarantee frictionless trade.....what he does not say is that being in the customs union means that we are much less likely to be able to do independent trade deals....that is at best....at worst we could be prevented from doing deals that are to our advantage.

It also means that our government cannot help ailing industries by giving them reductions in tariffs to make their product more commercial.

He mentions being a ten pound an hour factory worker.
It has not taught him much has it?

I would say to him....you are like the last Bank Holiday.....promised much, but delivered little, a great downpour of disappointment.....and this justification of his actions down in the metropolis just shows how little he really knows his local electorate....and how little he values them.

[cashman]

Graham Jones also says in his article at the bottom of the page "Its easy to blame M.P.s but that just avoids the simple reality" well the reality is MOST M.Ps were remainers whatever Party "FACT" he has really Disgusted me , by completely ignoring that fact.

[Margaret Pilkington]

They do not want to accept the blame for anything.
I have not read his column because I cannot abide to read what he writes...I only read his letter because I wanted to see how he can justify his actions.
The tone in the letter was(in my opinion) very conciliatory.
It was not in the least bit aggressive because he cannot rubbish what is published in Hansard, because that is the daily record of what happens in the house.

His justifications do not impress me in the least.

[Margaret Pilkington]

We import something like 70% of produce from EU countries (things like fruit and veg, wine etc) are you telling me that these EU countries would shun trade with the U.K?
They need our trade, they need our tourists....are they going to refuse to allow people to visit their countries?
I really don't think so!

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

They do not want to accept the blame for anything.
I have not read his column because I cannot abide to read what he writes...I only read his letter because I wanted to see how he can justify his actions.
The tone in the letter was(in my opinion) very conciliatory.
It was not in the least bit aggressive because he cannot rubbish what is published in Hansard, because that is the daily record of what happens in the house.

His justifications do not impress me in the least.

Bullshine NEVER washes with me.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

He mentions being a ten pound an hour factory worker

Could I suggest he goes back to being a factory worker?

He'll find the hourly rate has gone up slightly since he last worked & he's can't be any worse doing that for a living than he is as an M.P.

Oh no, it's too late for him now he'll have to stick to his new job, factory work is like rocking horse **** around here these days.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Less, he will not need to go back to factory work(even if there was some available)....he will have made so many connections that will pay him far better than any factory work....without getting his hands dirty.
Not only that he will not need to queue up at the tea urn with the great unwashed, illeducated plebs that he considers us to be.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Someone on TV....think it might have been Ian Hislop said that if we crashed out without a deal(he means the ratification of the WA) then under WTO we would have to 'go back, begging for them to trade with us'.

This kind of rhetoric from someone who is well educated irritates the crap,out of me. Not only that, it is misleading and untrue.

We would not need to go 'begging' as he puts it.
The countries of the EU, who currently sell to us(and also buy from us) would continue to do so....but without the restrictions imposed by EU regulations.

There is no doubt in my mind that for a time things might be tough, but so what.
Is it not worth getting through tough times to be free of this meddling, arrogant, undemocratic and corrupt organisation?
I think it is!

If we need to go back to growing our own stuff, eating things seasonally( though I don't think Chilean grapes, or Egyptian strawberries would be banned) then so be it.

We have managed in the past, we can do it again.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Michel Barnier says that majority of us voted for Brexit because of nostalgic desires to go back to when Britain was a great power.

This just shows how little he understands the British.
17.4 million voted to leave.....and I would guess every single one of those voters had their own reasons.

Some of the voters are not old enough to remember a time when we were not enmeshed in the EU.
I would suggest to him that many of us voted to leave to be Free from the single market, Free from the over arching jurisdiction of the ECJ, Free from the customs union, and Free from the ties that Freedom of movement creates.....that many of us also felt that how we were treated was questionable.

You do not denigrate allies, you do not insult friends, you do not try to humiliate and belittle your neighbour.
Michel Barnier and his crew will never fully understand how the leavers see the EU....but it has nothing at all to do with nostalgia for days past.

[monkey hanger]

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;1228726]

We would not need to go 'begging' as he puts it.
The countries of the EU, who currently sell to us(and also buy from us) would continue to do so....but without the restrictions imposed by EU regulations.


just looking at the motor industry for one. can you imagine the reaction of german and french car manufacturers if they were not allowed to export to the UK. would love to see it happening just to see what they would make of the EU.

[Margaret Pilkington]

The thing is we do not buy motor cars....washing machines, kitchens anywhere near as regularly as we buy tomatoes, lettuces, olive oil, wine....the list goes on.
While these purchases are much smaller they still account for a lot of trade between, Holland,Spain, Italy et al.
The Med countries also rely on tourists visiting and spending their money.
They are not going to want us to take off to places like Thailand, Turkey and other places that will take money out of their economies.....because they really do depend on that money.

I have just been reading that the current Home Secretary Saj Javid has laid his cards on the table.
He says there will be no second referendum, no revocation of Article 50, no general election.
He also says that he would invest in serious preparation for leaving the EU by default(no ratification of the WA).
He says that if we did leave unratified he would fund technology to ensure no hard border in Ireland....he believes the technology exists for this to be possible.
My take on that is that this border belongs to the EU and it is THEY who should sort it out.

This man was the managing director of Deutsche Bank and has experience and skills in international negotiation, so he would not be reticent about going back to Brussels to try his hand(good luck with that one....I think it would fail regardless of who is doing the dealing)at getting a deal, but if it were not possible he would walk.....and we would leave by default.

Here is a man who has a plan....and he is confident enough to lay it out.
I think he is offering what the country voted for. Yes, he WAS a remainer, but he is a convert.....and true converts are more passionate about their new found values
All power to his elbow.
We need someone with this kind of backbone.

[Exile on Spencer St]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Michel Barnier says that majority of us voted for Brexit because of nostalgic desires to go back to when Britain was a great power.

Yeah, and presumably the majority of those happy to be in the EU are clearly nostalgic for the days when that Continent was run by Germany.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Exile on Spencer St

Yeah, and presumably the majority of those happy to be in the EU are clearly nostalgic for the days when that Continent was run by Germany.

That majority is terminally STUPID wanting the E.U. to run our country.