Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[RainbowSix]

So Germany won the war in the end

I'm still undecided, whatever is said I see nothing as proof of sentiment and peoples feelings.

Its all "what if" and "we may "but there are no hard facts about what will happen.

I consider my kids rights and their erosion through taking away the ECHR etc.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

I consider my kids rights and their erosion through taking away the ECHR etc.

And that same ECHR is at the root of a lot of recent grievances within the UK & elsewhere due to its misuse & interpretation by inept ECHR Judges & further exploited by scummy, slimy human rights lawyers!

The talk is about a British bill of rights for the British people, laws & protections laid down & banged out by the British for the British, an enhancement & modernised version of the "Magna Carta", which for centuries was the basis of our laws & the enabling of our freedoms. It was good enough that many free countries based their own legal & social systems on our model.

The eu's interference has diluted & destroyed its inherent principles & value, should UK fail to break free, what is presently seen as unfair, prejudiced & undermining of British justice will become markedly worse as we'll have no control over an unelected body deciding what's best for us & our constitution. Especially as the effects of their diktats will have no direct bearing on them (the makers) , but will most definitely be used to grind us down & make us complacently accept further binds on our freedoms.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

I consider my kids rights and their erosion through taking away the ECHR etc.

yet you do not consider they have a right to have a say in the running of their country...who comes here and who does not....you do not consider their right to jobs, houses, health care.
You want them to live in a Britain which is 'foreign'......whose cultural values will be changed forever.
Just as a matter of interest the ECHR was drafted in 1950 by the Council of Europe(it was drafted at the behest of the Allied Powers and it was hoped to prevent some of the things that went on during the second world war) and came into force in the latter part of 1953.
Do you think the UK had no human rights regulations before this time?(UK human rights were enshrined in common law and go back to 1689)

As I have said in the past, I thnk we will not get out of the EU....but will become even further enmeshed in the finance and politics of this organisation..to the detriment of future generations and the country in general.

[Margaret Pilkington]

And these Human Rights...would they be the ones which protect the criminals rights over those of the victim?...that allow murderer and rapists to stay in this country because it contravenes their human rights to a family life to deport them?...never mind that your child/spouse/ friend is dead and can have no life whatsoever.

This question does not require an answer.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Mental Merkels

Wasn't Hitler considered to be insane as well? Perhaps it runs in the family.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

So Germany won the war in the end

I'm still undecided, whatever is said I see nothing as proof of sentiment and peoples feelings.

Its all "what if" and "we may "but there are no hard facts about what will happen.

I consider my kids rights and their erosion through taking away the ECHR etc.

So you agree that rapists and other criminals from other countries can remain here in UK and not be deported? - that is one of the decrees of the EHCR.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

And these Human Rights...would they be the ones which protect the criminals rights over those of the victim?...that allow murderer and rapists to stay in this country because it contravenes their human rights to a family life to deport them?...never mind that your child/spouse/ friend is dead and can have no life whatsoever.

This question does not require an answer.

I am sorry Margaret, but I do think your statement requires an answer.You responded to a post that apparently supports the right of murderers, rapists, paedophiles, drug suppliers and many other varieties of criminals to remain in the UK because the ECHR says we cannot deport them.
Perhaps they should read a little Shakespeare, may I suggest - John of Gaunt, Richard II, Act II, Scene I

[Margaret Pilkington]

Don't be sorry Barrie, it is a very relevant post.....to what was a rhetorical question.

[Barrie Yates]

Keeping it in the family - Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) figures hidden from the public but seen by Express.co.uk reveal the PM's father-in-law has received at least £614,577.26 in CAP payments since 2008.

Official figures for the scheme, which has been running in its current format since 1999, do not go back to beyond that, but independent data compiled from Freedom of Information requests by an online watchdog indicate Sir Reginald's companies may have received as much as £2.7million in the last 15 years.

Safe to presume that his daughter, and therefore DC, will eventually benefit from this income.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

Keeping it in the family - Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) figures hidden from the public but seen by Express.co.uk reveal the PM's father-in-law has received at least £614,577.26 in CAP payments since 2008.

Official figures for the scheme, which has been running in its current format since 1999, do not go back to beyond that, but independent data compiled from Freedom of Information requests by an online watchdog indicate Sir Reginald's companies may have received as much as £2.7million in the last 15 years.

Safe to presume that his daughter, and therefore DC, will eventually benefit from this income.

Certainly that sort of thing is well beyond those who think we should stay in. Thing is no-one really knows one way or the other if it will be good or bad for the economic sector, but what is known is immigration will get far worse if we remain, FACT, but say things like that n yer called a racist.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by cashman

Certainly that sort of thing is well beyond those who think we should stay in. Thing is no-one really knows one way or the other if it will be good or bad for the economic sector, but what is known is immigration will get far worse if we remain, FACT, but say things like that n yer called a racist.

Not by me you won't.
I do not see how stating a fact can be considered racist. If you were to say that all Irish were thick or all French were arrogant...then those would be considered racist...but I doubt that you would be taken to task for it because those two groups of people have thicker skins, they have a more balanced view, than some ethnic groups.( who feel that it benefits them to play the vistim)

[Eric]

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

So Germany won the war in the end

True indeed. And that's what pees me off so much about Germany (not the Germans, if that makes sense.) After all the shiite hey caused in the last century! Tanj, as Louis Wu would say.

[Lucysgirl]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

And these Human Rights...would they be the ones which protect the criminals rights over those of the victim?...that allow murderer and rapists to stay in this country because it contravenes their human rights to a family life to deport them?...never mind that your child/spouse/ friend is dead and can have no life whatsoever.

This question does not require an answer.

I've had to train myself not to have an apoplectic fit whenever I read that our legal eagles haven't managed to persuade EU judges that it's in Britain's interest to eject undesirables from our shores - can't they understand their own Human Rights document!

ARTICLE 8
Right to respect for private and family life
1.
Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family
life, his home and his correspondence.
2.
There shall be no interference by a public authority with the
exercise of this right EXCEPT such as is in accordance with the
law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of
national security, public safety or the economic wellbeing of the
country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection
of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms
of others.

[cashman]

Perhaps its cos they have no wish too Lucy,? after all legal eagles make loads of dosh from this stuff, ask cherie blair.

[RainbowSix]

Don't be so bloody stupid!
Of course I don't support rapists and murderers, you suggestion so is damn insulting!

The EHCR has nowt to do with keeping scum like that in this country, our government and security forces are well able to do whats required to get rid of them.

I have just said that I consider my kids rights that have been given to them by Europe.
That's not ALL that is for consideration, just part of it.

What happens if we leave, will all this that your saying suddenly come true?
Will it heck as like, will the magna carta etc be given more subsistence than it already has? Or will it continue to just be a legacy thing that we no longer apply as much.

As I have said - I do not know all the details that should enable me to make a choice, because I cannot see them with verification of accuracy, of being current and knowing what will happen once we do leave.

I have a feeling that if we do, not a lot will happen before I'm dead, pollytiks do not work that fast.

Don't bother replying if all you can do is come out with stupid comments that cannot be quantified with accurate visible facts I can read to aid me making a decision.

You want to vote out then vote out, some of us consider what the future could be like if the UK government was allowed to remove some of what european laws have given us.
There is a good side to europe you know.