Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

We simply do not have such a closed mind on what Brexit means and are considering lots of other issues than immigration (which is actually a very small part of it).

Immigration may be a small part of the debate but it certainly has the most major impact on everything else. Getting out won't cure all our ills or return Britain to what it was 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years since, but it will at least put a brake on the galloping changes happening to the Country.

Getting out of the eu would save the Country money (the exact amount can't be stated as all the figures are juggled to suit the claimant) but we'd certainly save at least all sides are agreed upon that. The money saved could then be reinvested within the UK as "we" require & on what "we" decide.

Control of our borders would be in our hands & "we" could decide the requirements & conditions for entry as they suit "us" & not because we belong to some "club" whose members we have to admit regardless.

Housing, health & education are all impacted by immigration whether you like it or not. The bigger the population the more pressing the needs on the aforementioned services, added to that the illiteracy & inability of immigrants to grasp the basics of the English language adds further costs in the form of translated forms & paper work or interpretors.

Benefit payments reduce the Countries ability to pay for services for its populace, it's problem enough when you're paying for your own lame & lazy who've no intention of contributing to society, but what's even worse is paying for the rest of the worlds sick, lame & lazy who not only won't work, but can't work because of language or education (immigrants mainly) at least our own can be gotten a grip on.

So you see where this is going, you may dismiss immigration as an irrelevance, but it most certainly isn't, it is in fact an extremely relevant issue.

And finally before you get on at me about being a little Englander/racist/fascist/Nazi or whatever hand wringing, whining lefty epithet you deem fitting, a few facts about me.

I left UK with the Army, based in Germany, worked with various nationalities & religions, learnt the language(German, even some Nepali), got out (See, I'm also an immigrant) married & settled here, assimilated into the community & lived as a good little european, travel extensively round NW Europe, & most importantly, work hard (doing some god awful jobs) & pay my way in society.

But I still think UK should get OUT!

[Margaret Pilkington]

Not a drop of vitriol was spilt in the above post.
Well said!

[cashman]

Well i can do vitriol, a closed brain is preferable to a closed mind, of one who to me has a head like Birkenhead.

[Lucysgirl]

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

.... but what about the European laws that force us to make our products safer? the European laws that mean that our products must meet EMC standards, so that they do not interfere with other things? CE certifications that are designed to make our childrens toys safe? simple yes - but they are good things born out of European laws..

I'm being a bit pedantic here but I'd just like to point out that prior to the UK eventually conforming to CE Certification in every field back in the 1990s, all products, installations, etc., etc., had to conform to British Standards (BSI) which were always being updated - some even required higher safety standards than the EU certification.

[Lucysgirl]

My TV preferences recently have been keeping abreast of British sports and it was only by chance that I saw Channel 4's EU poll and discussion yesterday.

EU poll ? ethnic minorities hold the balance of power | Gary Gibbon on Politics

Contrary to some posters view the participants in the TV discussion made it plain that immigration from (none English speaking) Eastern Europe concerned them greatly

If this country had nothing to offer we wouldn't be experiencing great influxes of foreigners (7,505,000 foreign born as per the 2011 census - the largest group being Irish. The whole total is a 53.3% increase on 2001 census - presumably some would have British born offspring).

Once the Referendum results are known the initial reaction will be from the international money markets. If our creditors such as Moodys etc., don't like the result our credit rating will slide down, the value of Sterling will fall and cuts will have to be made.
The first time I experienced a downturn in the country's fortunes was in 1967. My husband was a low paid Forces man and in mid 1960s was doing the work of three men due to cuts that were being made to HM Forces. When cuts are made what happens is higher paid men with experience are dismissed before their contract is ended and some replaced with new recruits who are on the lowest pay grade. In 1966 he was posted to NATO in France where we joined him, but a few months later, in 1967, NATO removed to Holland and it was then that the penny dropped that Britain was in the doldrums because the country couldn't afford to pay their men the overseas allowance which was supposed to take their pay up to a "living wage" in the country where they resided. After demob in 1970 it was even more obvious that there was no money in the country's coffers. I had the same experience as younger Brits, no vacancies advertised in the job centre, a ten year waiting list for social housing, estate agencies closed down due to no houses for sale which meant four of us sharing one room in parent's house. Prices in the shops had sky rocketed. However, Britain must have had something to offer foreigners whilst we were abroad because there was evidence of immigrants, as bus conductors were obviously from the African colonies and for the very first time I saw women shrouded in black from the Indian continent.

I'm still sitting on the fence, but whatever happens, we'll survive.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Mind you don't get splinters in your bum.....you would need a friend with a sterilised implement to get them out.
I have listened, I have searched, I have considered carefully the assumed and projected implications of my vote.
If we do not leave then despite having a gold plated credit rating life will be tough.
The EU do not take kindly to little upstart countries doing an 'Oliver' and they have almost come out and said they will make us pat.
The EU wants compliant subservient members who do as they are told without any back chat.
We saw what happened to Ireland when a referendum went( according to the EU) the wrong way.....they were sent back to vote again and come up with the right answer.

If we stay in, then why don't we just get rid of our parliament....because most of the rules and laws will come from Brussels.

If we stay in and more of the Eastern bloc are allowed to join the EU as is mooted, then these people will also want to come here.
Their thieves and thugs will come here to what they see as rich pickings.....and we will have no way to stop them. How can this be? Other countries are bound by the same ECHR codes, but they manage to shift the thugs, the rapist and the murderers.....the answer lies in the fact that the British way is to follow rules slavishly.....and of course the rigidity of the interpretation. France bends the rules to suit her people.....the UK does not.

People come here and want it to be like their old country....they do not integrate.
If they want it to be like their old country, then that is where they belong.
You do not adopt a country then start trying to convert it to a copy of what you left.

Many of the migrants do not bother to learn the language. They have no need to. They live in their own little(or not so little) enclaves, they shop in shops owned and run by their own people.
Whatever happens...yes of course we will survive....but life should not be about survival.
We need to take back the controls to our destiny....to be able to take the direction we want
to go in....not be dragged along by the Federal States of Europe.
The larger the EU becomes and the more unstable it gets.

[cashman]

As the late Tony Benn said, if people in this country in power, do things you dont want, you can do summat about it, cos they are elected, but in the E.U. all the top positions are appointed so yer stuffed, think about the implications of that if yer capable.

[Margaret Pilkington]

The other thing Cashy is that the bigger the country, the more votes they have on issues....which is why in the 70 cases the UK has voted on, not one of them has gone in our favour.
So we are paying 350million quid every week to have no influence whatsoever.
I think we are the second largest contributor to the coffers of the EU.

[Barrie Yates]

Apparently the EU has held back on the intention to merge the London & Frankfurt Stock Exchanges, according to a couple of reports from News Agencies.
The announcement is now due to be made in July.
Perhaps the Germans intend to control the largest financial market in Europe as well as everything else?

[Less]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

Perhaps the Germans intend to control the largest financial market in Europe as well as everything else?

Welcome to the 4th reich!
Ich bein ein Berliner!
I don't remember choosing that fate but, millions had no choice 70 odd years ago either!

[Margaret Pilkington]

If this merger goes ahead the Deutsche Borse will own 54.4% of the London stock exchange.
The merger as Barrie has pointed out will not now take place until sometime in July......this deal is to stop thwart the interest shown by the owner of the New York stock exchange.....and of course to supposedly save money. The deal is worth 20 BILLION pounds.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Less

Welcome to the 4th reich!
Ich bein ein Berliner!
I don't remember choosing that fate but, millions had no choice 70 odd years ago either!

They must be spinning in their graves right now. All those lives lost and for what?
We just roll over and let ourselves be taken over by foreigners

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

They must be spinning in their graves right now. All those lives lost and for what?
We just roll over and let ourselves be taken over by foreigners

Now, now, Margaret, we should welcome the takeover with open arms, we don't want to be seen as racists.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Well, people can think what they want of me.
Attaching a label only closes down sensible debate.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Less

Ich bein ein Berliner!

That comment always makes me grin!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliner_%28doughnut%29

That's why.