Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Eric.....have you got to be able to do both?
I can skate, but I have never tried to field dress a moose.....You did say Moose and not mouse didn't you?

Well, there have to be some light moments to this serious subject.

I think Eric is trying to mislead us into thinking it will be easy, he's not quite written that statement as is shown in the fine print.

Originally Posted by Eric

only those who can skate or field dress a moose would be allowed to vote.

only those who can skate And field dress a moose at the same time, would be allowed to vote.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Eric it sound like a veritable paradise.
I'll pack my case!

[taddy]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

In the vernacular of your (1980's-1990's) Squaddie those of us that had dealings with them referred to them as "Spams". (self propelled American morons)

I know, hardly pc & all that guff, but that was the way of it & I'm pretty damn sure they had reciprocal epithets for us too.

My brother served in the R.E.M.E. for twenty two years, my wifes brother served in the Royal Navy for fifteen years and our son served in the 1st Royal Tank Regiment for six years, yet none of them ever mentioned Spams.

Their usual discriptions of the Yanks was either, (all the gear but no idea) or an even better one was, (the U.S. military is 10% women 40% black and 100% thick).

Yours as ever, stay happy, Taddy.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

In the vernacular of your (1980's-1990's) Squaddie those of us that had dealings with them referred to them as "Spams". (self propelled American morons)

I know, hardly pc & all that guff, but that was the way of it & I'm pretty damn sure they had reciprocal epithets for us too.

Even in the '70s DinG - I worked on the joint unit at Teufelsberg, what a struggle at times but the Berlin PX was a good deal.
Also worked for one of the largest US Defence companies for almost 10 years - which was very frustrating at times, but a great company to work for in all aspects. Once you got used to and accepted their national psyche life was good.

[accyman]

part of me thinks these so called defections are part of a plan to somehow make the out option appear to be for morons

grove who has failed in every position he has been entrusted with and couldnt even spell despite been in charge of education and a clown like boris

im not paranoid i just happen to know what politicians are capable of which is pretty much anything other than decency and honesty

[Margaret Pilkington]

I'm with you there Accyman.
It won't be long before someone comes out and says that those who want to leave are ill educated and lacking in the brain department.
Honesty and decency shouldn't ever be in a sentence that relates to politics.

[Eric]

Seems like those posting have their positions staked out. But there are a couple of questions that you guys maybe able to help me with. What will be the questions on the ballot? I predict it won't be a straightforward one What percentage of the vote will constitute a victory? I'm assuming, not necessarily correctly, that the "In" crowd (I feel a song coming on) would be happy with 50% + one, something the "Outs" might not go for. Will the government stack the deck by using tax revenue to fund the "INs"?

[Margaret Pilkington]

The question on the ballot paper is very clear and straightforward.
It has been published and I am sure most people will have seen it.
As for the second question a majority of one is still a majority.
My understanding is that the campaign will be funded from the public purse, with the IN protagonists having the larger budget....unfair, but then we know exactly what the current incumbents hope will happen.....and that is that we vote to stay in(anything else means a lot of work for those at the Palace of Westminster).

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The question on the ballot paper is very clear and straightforward.
It has been published and I am sure most people will have seen it.
As for the second question a majority of one is still a majority.
My understanding is that the campaign will be funded from the public purse, with the IN protagonists having the larger budget....unfair, but then we know exactly what the current incumbents hope will happen.....and that is that we vote to stay in(anything else means a lot of work for those at the Palace of Westminster).

Ah ... found THE QUESTION. But I don't see it as being all that neutral or simple. There are probably millions of voters who are somewhere in between "in" or "out". Question is, which way will they swing? It seems as if Cameron's "deal" is more important than I first thought. Seems like what folks may be asked to vote for is that deal. The waverers might be tempted to vote for staying in the EU with changes. So the DEAL, with all its convoluted language and complicated provisions actually becomes THE QUESTION.

And I don't think a majority of one is sufficient. A miniscule majority might just become the issue in the next election, perpetuating division.

Parties which win elections are famous for claiming "We have been given a mandate by the people ... etc." Whichever way you look at it, 50% + 1 ain't no mandate.

British foreign policy has for centuries been based on a balance of power in Europe. Leaving the EU will leave Britain without influence. I know the world has changed, especially since WWll ... you now have to consider your best buddy, the USA. But the US has a vested interest in Britain's remaining a member of the EU. Expect some serious arm twisting from the Yanks, particularly the Democrats who look set to win the Presidential election ... as long as the Republicans are bent on self-destruction.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Well, the so called deal is actually no deal at all because whatever was agreed by those members at the recent negotiations cannot guarantee that these proposals will not be veto'd once the result of the referendum is known.
Now if the UK electorate votes to stay in we are stuffed.....we got nothing.....we will be left looking like right lemons.
If they vote to come out then it really doesn't matter......because their influence will have less bearing on the daily doings of the UK.

Something like 60% of our laws come out of Brussels.....from unelected bureaucrats.....people who really have no interests in the good of the people in the UK.....people who we cannot use a democratic process to remove.

The EU ties our businesses in red tape. They make business harder to conduct because we, the British play entirely by the rules. Other countries( like France) cherry pick which rules they will follow.....nothing happens to them, there are no penalties imposed on them.

We buy more from EU countries than we sell to.
Germany talked about imposing trading tariffs if we leave.....let them.
The whole of our trade with all of the EU amounts to 44%. We buy more from them....and we could impose trading tariffs too.
The EU needs the UK in there because next to Germany we are the largest nett contributor.
If we left then, Germany would be left to shoulder the burden of the financial mire that is currently the Eurozone.
The EU is the most undemocratic, bloated and corrupt organisation going.

As for leaving the UK without influence.....Eric, that is a joke. We have very little influence in the EU.....we are a voice that goes unheard.
We need to look away from the EU......we should not be shackling ourselves to an organisation that can shift the goalposts once the vote is in.
Would you pay an untold amount of money for a car.....the make ,model and specwhich you would not be told until after you had handed over the money?...because that is what this 'deal' is akin to.
I just hope that the electorate can see that this is a mirage.....an illusion painted by smooth tongued snake oil salesmen.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Eric

the US has a vested interest in Britain's remaining a member of the EU. Expect some serious arm twisting from the Yanks,

They've already been sticking their oar in, Kerry, Obama & a few others which was given short shrift from Liam Fox at a "GO" meeting he said :-

“The current President of the United States, when he tells us that Britain should remain in the EU… when the U.S. has an open border with Mexico, and they have a court that can over rule the Supreme Court in the United States, then maybe they can start giving us some advice”.

And of course the EU have been stirring things up to, when they were told to wind their necks in they said they only wished to "inform" the British public as to the "value" of staying with the EU.

Brussels told to say out of referendum amid fears of a pro EU advertising blitz | World | News | Daily Express

Yeah right!

[Margaret Pilkington]

We do not need the US or Brussels to advise us how to vote.....both of those parties have their own vested interests for the status quo to remain.
Those agendas may not be beneficial to the UK.......we know that the EU has used strong arm tactics in the past......Ireland and the Lisbon treaty spring to mind.

These incidents only make me more suspicious of the stuff that is going on in the back rooms, make me more inclined to distrust what those in power are telling us.

If I am honest I do not see the vote going the way I would like it to go.....or if it does, then I can see the EU doing some side stepping in order to coerce the PM not to leave(I'm sure that I read that even if we vote to come out, David Cameron is not obliged to do what the electorate wants).
As I have said, if we leave then the whole house of cards could come tumbling down.

[accyman]

Cameron did a 360 degree public speech with the help from the BBC

this new approach of banning the public and a fancy camera angle may be all that is needed to change peoples minds

but remember if we leave we are jumping in to the darkness as cameron says.....

but if we stay in we sink further in to the abyss he forgot to add

[cashman]

The BBC are the most politically biased set of goons.

[Margaret Pilkington]

They are, but not usually in favour of Tories.
I am already fed up of hearing the thinly veiled threats of what MIGHT happen if we vote for Brexit.