Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[nowandzen]

Originally Posted by hilleluk

If Corbyn's Labour party had not lied over student fees, the Conservative party would have had a landslide

I can't see that one single issue changed an entire election. The popular press like to polarise issues, but we should be wary of falling into such simplistic thinking.

It was undeniably an attractive policy, and who are we to call it a 'lie' when they were not given the opportunity to deliver? (Compare with Clegg's lie over student fees - ultimately fatal). All manifesto promises are fair until proven otherwise.

The blame lies with Mrs May, even she accepts that.


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[nowandzen]

Originally Posted by hilleluk

Well, there is one thing Jeremy Corbyn has been an IRA supporter

Simplistic tabloid stuff again. The reality is much more complicated. But I'm not defending him, other than from your claim his lies are why the country is writhing on the floor in the EU negotiations.

I recommend you read All Out War by Tim Shipman, which is the "full story of Brexit". https://www.waterstones.com/book/all.../9780008215170

It all started to go wrong long before Mrs May or Corbyn were leaders. Britain's relationship with the EU is messy to say the least.


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[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by nowandzen

It all started to go wrong long before Mrs May or Corbyn were leaders. Britain's relationship with the EU is messy to say the least.


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That has to be the biggest understatement of all time.

The UK has never really been comfortable with the concept of the EU - neither has the EU ever been comfortable with the UK being in the EU...except they like to take the money from us....but not a single politician wanted to listen to the people of the UK.

We were sold this dysfunctional organisation as a trading alliance.
It morphed into something different and still we were not given a voice.

Mrs May was constantly being told that she had no mandate from the people...she had not been elected...she had just been parachuted into the position of leader by the cowardly abdication of responsinility, by David Cameron.
I really think he gave the country the referendum thinking that nothing would change...so when the country voted to get out of the EU...he took fright.

In such circumstances I can see why Mrs May took the advice to go to a general election...it was her chance to seek the mandate from the electorate and silence the critics who said she had no mandate.

The campaign was fought by the tories as if it was already won..big mistake...and Jeremy Corbyn did what all Labour leaders do...promise the electorate the earth and a bag to put it in....also thinking that he would not have to deliver....well, he was right...but only just.


At a time like this, the politicians should be joining ranks and rolling their sleeves up to deliver what the country chose to do....not fighting in a sack like so many snakes.(which, in a nutshell, is what they are!)
The likes of Claude Juncker and Michel Barnier must be rubbing their hands in glee to see the political parties in such disarray.

[nowandzen]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

That has to be the biggest understatement of all time.

Haha, I know. Sorry!

I should have clarified I was referring to Brexit, which only started its current rumblings after the 2010 election.

[Margaret Pilkington]

No.. don't be sorry...you have said what is true.
I can live with people who tell it like it is.
That is how I operate in my corner of the world.

[Less]

As D-in-G has said elsewhere in a thread, it's a funny old world.

Brexit according to politicians was brought about by the misplaced voting of, ill-educated older generation, this didn't go down too well with quite a few of us on here or indeed across the nation.

Now it seems according to some, the chances of brexit running smoothly by us having a strong government has been botched thanks to the 'educated' students of the younger generation kicking against the traces and voting for their own survival, (I'd do the same if I was one of them).

No doubt there will be other political catastrophes before we can say goodbye to Europe.

All those of you in betweenies had better expect to be blamed for whatever comes next after all, you must be the silent majority at whose feet the blame must in future be placed just to prove that we are all equal in the politicians eyes.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Politicians are very good at laying the blame at someone else's door.
Whatever happens it is NEVER their fault.
I think this can be said of the referendum too...by giving us a say, they had automatically found someone to blame(whichever way it turned out)
Except those of us who have lived long enough, know that it can all be laid at the door of successive, lily livered governments who were too scared to go to the electorate about the changes in the EU(from the E.E.C).
They allowed us to get in deeper and deeper...for more and more control to be assumed by Brussels (who could not give a flying fig for the thoughts and ideals of the UK public - as long as we cough up the money, they don't care) until we might just as well have lost the second world war...after all they seemed to be ruling us(rather than us ruling ourselves).
How our brave boys who gave up their lives for our freedoms must be spinning in their graves.
British politicians betrayed us just so that they could have a life on the gravy train.

[Margaret Pilkington]

sigh...now where did I put my anti cynical pills?

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

sigh...now where did I put my anti cynical pills?

Leave them in the bottle, we don't want you overdosing by accident.

[Margaret Pilkington]

There is certainly a chance of that Less, but they never kill you....they just leave you feeling sort of hung over but worse.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

There is certainly a chance of that Less, but they never kill you....they just leave you feeling sort of hung over but worse.

People have said they are addictive, I don't agree, I've been using them every day for over 50 years and don't find them habit forming.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Less

As D-in-G has said elsewhere in a thread, it's a funny old world.

Brexit according to politicians was brought about by the misplaced voting of, ill-educated older generation, this didn't go down too well with quite a few of us on here or indeed across the nation.

This older generation you are talking about left school at 14/15...and yes were were poorly educated...but we were(in the main) numerate and literate.

From leaving school most of us(especially those on here that you refer to Less) enrolled in the University of Life.
No mickey mouse degrees for us...no film and media studies, no political science(What is that? Since when has politics had anything scientific about it. If you can lie and look someone straight in the face you can be in politics).
We worked and went to night school or took up apprenticeships.
Whatever...our education continued driven by our needs to earn a living.
During this self betterment process we gained something known as 'experience'.
It was this experience that made me vote the way I did...in the referendum and in every election where I have made a valid vote.

So although the politicians considered us ill educated(because we did not go to uni) WE ALL KNOW that they couldn't find their bum with two hands and a map..this despite the fact that many of them DID go to Uni.
It was just a case of those 'elite' career politicians letting us know that the' peas had got their heads above the sticks'

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Less

People have said they are addictive, I don't agree, I've been using them every day for over 50 years and don't find them habit forming.

Me too Less...Me too( except I have to admit to at least another ten years of use)

[nowandzen]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Me too Less...Me too( except I have to admit to at least another ten years of use)

I don't use 'em, I like to keep my cynicism perfectly honed.


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[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes...you can tell

I start each day telling myself that today will be different.....I will not look beneath what someone is telling me(to see if they are trying to put one over on me)...but each day I fail.
It has now become my nature.