Referendum is a load of crap.!!

[cashman]

Have just seen on Sky News,that Cameron has told his euro skeptic ministers they will be forced to resign, if they are saying they are for coming out of the E.U., anyone thinking that folk are going to get a free choice is seriously deluded, i may have it, but any Tory Minister who feels we should be out of Europe certainly dont. Seems hes hoping to brainwash the public, anyone who believes out he says is nuts imho.

[Neil]

Same as always, read what you can and make your own mind up which way to vote

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Neil

Same as always, read what you can and make your own mind up which way to vote

Always have Neil, just think its disgusting that MPs cant have a free vote.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Not only will MP's not have a free vote, the money for the yes campaign will be unlimited, whereas the campaign fund for the NO vote will be limited.
So you can see where this is going.
If The PM gets radical changes to the way the EU functions then he will feel that the voters will want to remain in the EU....But I have my reservations about a renegotiated position.
I feel sure that we would not get what the electorate want.

We are still going to be paying ludicrous amounts of money into this corrupt club, for very little benefit.
We are still going to be having rules imposed on us by unelected mandarins in Brussels.....and yes, I DO know we have MEP's, but their influence is that of a gnat bite on an elephants behind.....so small as to be insignificant.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Not only will MP's not have a free vote, the money for the yes campaign will be unlimited, whereas the campaign fund for the NO vote will be limited.
So you can see where this is going.
If The PM gets radical changes to the way the EU functions then he will feel that the voters will want to remain in the EU....But I have my reservations about a renegotiated position.
I feel sure that we would not get what the electorate want.

We are still going to be paying ludicrous amounts of money into this corrupt club, for very little benefit.
We are still going to be having rules imposed on us by unelected mandarins in Brussels.....and yes, I DO know we have MEP's, but their influence is that of a gnat bite on an elephants behind.....so small as to be insignificant.

Seems like Cameron has withdrawn the threat ... it's in your papers if you want to check it out.

I think the important thing for you guys, as it was in the Quebec referrenda, is the question. It can't be so confusing that the average idiot voter will give up on trying to understand it ... especially in a country where the main drug problem is the over-consumption of booze.

But there is one thing that you should take into account Margaret ... and it's something you don't like, and maybe don't want to think about: social media ... Twitter and Facebook. Big bankrolled ad campaigns are becoming a thing of the past. There's lots of stuff being written about this shiite, particularly in business publications. One reason that Rotten Ronnie's sales are falling ... apart from their "food" being crap ... is that smaller chains, who, in the past, could not afford big advertising campaigns are now taking to social media to push their product. Go on Facebook ... check out Martin's Bakery Oswaldtwistle. Whatever ... much of the campaign will likely be fought in the trenches of Twitter and Facebook.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes apparently the PM says his comments were misinterpreted(though I am not sure how what he is supposed to have said could be misinterpreted.....vote with party lines or be sacked.....nothing too ambiguous there).
As for Twitter, Facebook et al.....no chance I will be visiting those sites.... Come what may.I am not interested in advertising campaigns.....and if it can only be found on the social media sites then there are going to be a large proportion of people.....especially in the 'ancient ' age groups who will not be reached.
I have already made my mind up........unless the EU is prepared to let us be just trading partners.....no political strings.....then I will be with the NO campaign.
We signed up to a trading alliance, not to be part of the United States of Europe......and they can call me a 'little Englander'.....I do not consider myself to be European.....I am BRITISH!

[Gordon Booth]

The ordinary MPs will have a free vote( although vote No and it won't do their careers any good).
It's only Government Ministers who have to commit and vote Yes if they want to remain Ministers- Collective Responsibility, a rule of all Governments.

In my heart I would love to leave the EU and go it alone but lets face reality-

We're a little nation in a world of big ones.
We haven't got a viable Army any more. We've hardly any Navy left- we've even had to borrow France's aircraft carrier. If we ever get our own carriers we've no planes for them. The RAF is just a shadow, we even struggle to keep 4 old Tornadoes flying in Iraq. We couldn't do the Falklands again,we couldn't do Iraq again(the Yanks had to help us out even then), we couldn't do Afghanistan again(the Yanks had to help us out even then). Without the Yanks we'd have been speaking German( or Russian ) for many years now. The Russians are flying round our coasts just for a laugh, checking if we still have any planes flying.
Foreigners own our water, electricity, ports, car plants, etc.

On our own the EU would soon freeze our banking system out and wreck it(wouldn't you, they already want to take the business to Germany).
We're in it too deep already, get out and the EU will screw us every which way, to teach us a lesson and to warn any of the other 27 not to get ideas of grandeur. The Yanks have already said if we're out they'll drop us and pal up more with Germany( they know who runs the EU).
Some of the big foreign companies will pull out, it's cheaper to trade within a 27 country block with one set of rules(however complicated)than to trade with them from a single country with a different set of rules.

'Trade with the Commonwealth'? They still see us as Imperialists and can buy anything they need from China and Asia, just as we do so we couldn't sell them stuff we don't make any more. They don't want Broad Oak cotton or steam locomotives. We couldn't supply them anyway.

Cameron may well get some of the concessions he wants, if only because Merkel wants some of the same things and will be able to blame us for it.
I hope he does, if he does and we vote to stay in we'll have a chance of progress.
If he doesn't and we stay in we'll be a spent force.
If we vote out and get out( I'm still not sure if Cameron will find a way round that) we'll be a little squeak in a world of shouters.

I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. I'll probably vote to stay in and weep as I do it.

[cashman]

I have always regarded meself as a realist Gordon, n theres no way on this earth,i will vote to remain in something that resembles sod all like what we joined.

[Margaret Pilkington]

There are other small nations which seem to do very well outside the EU.....Switzerland is one of these nations......Swiss and Banks seem to belong in the same sentence.
We traded with the world before the EU Gordon and you are(like me) old enough to remember those days...and yes...I know trade has changed a lot since then but that doesn't mean that we won't be trading again.......and if EU nations are petty enough to stop trading with us, then we find markets elsewhere...the EU, as a market, is shrinking.
Some of the stuff that is being put about is just scaremongering.
Our economy is doing better than any other in he EU, this despite the forecast from Christine Lagarde(head of the IMF) that we were going to struggle.
The greatest thing that Gordon Brown did for us was to keep us out of the Euro.

The EU is a corrupt money hungry organisation with no real respect for national sovereignty....for ANY nation, not just Britain.

We are more valuable to the EU than they are to us......and despite them considering us to be a pain in the butt, they want us to stay in because the Brits play by the rules.....they observe the rules just like they queue.....in an orderly fashion and without question. And we contribute too. Just think of the money that could be saved if we were not in this club.
The French cherry pick which rules they will follow and which they won't...nothing happens to them......do you think the French will accept Muslim women wearing the full face veil...No they do not...does this get them in trouble with ECHR...well, it seems not to.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by cashman

I have always regarded meself as a realist Gordon, n theres no way on this earth,i will vote to remain in something that resembles sod all like what we joined.

I agree with you totally cashman- this is not what we voted for and were promised.
I believe our leaders(all parties) knew how it would develop and even wanted it that way. The fear of a European wide or World wide war happening again drove them, maybe the Germans were canny enough to see a better way of conquering Europe.
But it's like the point of no return for an aircraft, you wish you hadn't taken off, you'd like to turn back but you've gone too far, you have to carry on. That's where we are now.
It won't make any difference to me, I'm too old , perhaps not to you although you're only a lad.
However we vote it's for our children's' future and their children's future. We shouldn't vote in anger at our betrayal, we should think what may be best for them.

[cashman]

I think its best for them outa the damn thing.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Me too.
My vote won't be in anger....it will be carefully thought out and considered.
The Common Market was what we were sold...not a a United states of Europe.
It was a dubious concept from the start.
This organisation has not had a budget passed in 19 years......but yet it continues to limp along.....and there are countries in the organisation that are limping along.....Greece is about as close to bankruptcy as it can be(and may be forced to leave by the end of this month as they cannot meet the 300million Euro payment that is necessary to service the loan from the ECB). Spain and Portugal are also in dire straits with France not so far behind.
The conductor of the EU orchestra(Angela Merkel) is having a hard time holding it together.

[accyman]

IM PREDICTING A %95 VICTORY TO STAY IN

regardless of how the votes go thats the result we will get ..

oh hang on thats labour statistics we have a Tory government now..

recalculating

comes out the same they also have rich pals who benefit from been in the EU and they also want euro mp jobs later on in life

[cashman]

Thats it in a nutshell to me, even though Cameron has now done a U-Turn on the personal voting, its utter bull, all it means is vote against n yeh will get no further in my government, plus many will vote to stay in, cos of natural greed, thats one hell of a gravy train they dont wanna miss.

[Gordon Booth]

I just love this one-

Belgium defies France with euro coin marking Napoleon defeat - Telegraph

Good on the Belgians!
The EU- don't they all just love each other?

Couldn't we have a 50pence coin with Wellington or St Helena on it?