Same Sex Marriages.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by gynn

There seem to be last ditch attempts by Conservative back benchers to postpone this week's vote on gay marriages. It seems that they fear people will not vote Conservative at the next election.

So who will these people vote for? Labour? No. They support gay marriage. Liberal Democrat? No. They support gay marriage even more than Labour.

What does that leave? UKIP? Well yes, they have opportunistically declared themselves against gay marriage. But what in God's name has Britains future economic stability got to do with who you are lying next to when you switch off the lights?

The truth is that these people are simply homophobic, and are hiding their prejudices behind a contrived shield of respectability. Let's hope nobody is taken in by it.

Surprised that this is still a problem over there. You guys are still fiddling with personal issues such as gay marriage (and a woman's right to a certain medical procedure), while all around you all is turning to ... what's that short old-English word for fecal matter ... you know the one that's for ever cropping up in Chaucer? Maybe my views are a little distorted from living in a country which has gay marriage, no abortion law, medical marijuana ... all with a tory government by the way ... also, I happen to live in a Province whose Premier is an openly gay woman legally married to her same sex partner.

[davebtelford]

Originally Posted by Eric

Surprised that this is still a problem over there. You guys are still fiddling with personal issues such as gay marriage (and a woman's right to a certain medical procedure), while all around you all is turning to ... what's that short old-English word for fecal matter ... you know the one that's for ever cropping up in Chaucer? Maybe my views are a little distorted from living in a country which has gay marriage, no abortion law, medical marijuana ... all with a tory government by the way ... also, I happen to live in a Province whose Premier is an openly gay woman legally married to her same sex partner.

Same sex marriage wasn't non-controversial when it was introduced in Canada (2004?). You just had the debate earlier, not all societies progress the same reforms at the same rate.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by gynn

Isn't that the whole point for many gay people wanting to get married? They are Christian, believe in God and want their union blessed in God's name.

I'll pass on discussing what it says in the Bible or we'll be back to defending slavery and murdering children who misbehave.

If they are christian, then they know that the church does not allow a marriage such as they want to be performed for them...and they also know why this is the case.
This doersn't mean that they cannot be christians, just that they cannot expect to partake of a sacrament that is purely for a man and a woman.

I am not agains homosexuals having their union blessed(if they can find a vicar who can do this for them).......but the redefining of marriage for them is wrong......it cannot be any other way.

It doesn't matter if governments legislate for this, people who hold that marriage is between a man and a woman will not change their views.....but people will be criminalised for their religious beliefs and for following their conscience.
I await the first muslim same sex wedding...do you think I might live to see it?
Do you think the Court of Human rights in Strasbourg will persecute muslims for not upholding same sex weddings...which is most definitely against the tenets of their religion.

[churchfcrules]

does marriage mean the same anymore anyway? apparently 34% of marriages end in divorce before 20 years mark, search online for divorce and one of the first things you will see is adverts of how to get quickie low cost divorces

in our throw away society has marriage not become just another "commodity" anyway, and when you have had enough just bin it, im relatively young in comparison to a lot of the posters on the site (could be wrong), but i still believe in marriage for life, rough with the smooth n all that goes with it and working through your problems, we will be celebrating our 24th wedding anniversary this month (maybe mrs church wouldnt use the phrase celebrating), and through that time there have been some real lows, but if you both believe that marriage means something, i believe that both will try when times are hard.

so for same sex marriage i say what the heck, go for it, but for me i would do away with divorce, sure people can split up, but you cant re-marry, once in a lifetime, then i think people would enter into marriage a little more cautious.

as a side note, i am booked to perform at a same sex marriage/blessing/civil partnership whatever the correct term will be then, this summer, the 2 ladies involved have been together a number of years and have a child (younger than the relationship), they seem happy enough so why shouldnt they join in matrimony, i am not religious but believe in marriage, even discussing "getting married again" on our 25th next year

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Neil

A few people in this Country are still Christian and still believe in God. Have a little read of the Bible and you will know why some people believe what they do about gay marriage.

Its no good quoting the bible at me Neil, the bible and other such books already created more problems for today's society that anything else, I had it pushed down my throat right through school and although I still have some contact with the church I sure as hell don't let it influence anything in my life today, lets face it these "Holy Books" were written centuries ago and have very little in common with today's lifestyles. If people want to carry on living their life as set out 2000 years ago, carry on, but please don't expect me to follow suit thank you

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by gynn

Isn't that the whole point for many gay people wanting to get married? They are Christian, believe in God and want their union blessed in God's name.

I'll pass on discussing what it says in the Bible or we'll be back to defending slavery and murdering children who misbehave.

Exactly gynn exactly

[Margaret Pilkington]

Where in the bible does it defend slavery and advocate the murdering of children?

[accyman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Where in the bible does it defend slavery and advocate the murdering of children?

im not sure on that one but i do recall a tale of a man who didnt do as he was told by god so god turned his wife into a pillar of salt..

i would hardly call that a punishment she may have been a right nag and it actually be a blessing

was it issac or someone

not that i actually believe that crap happened but it does show how backward the bible is

man does wrong - punish the woman lol

[susie123]

Originally Posted by accyman

im not sure on that one but i do recall a tale of a man who didnt do as he was told by god so god turned his wife into a pillar of salt..

i would hardly call that a punishment she may have been a right nag and it actually be a blessing

was it issac or someone

not that i actually believe that crap happened but it does show how backward the bible is

man does wrong - punish the woman lol

That was Lot's wife, she turned and looked behind her when commanded not to. It wasn't his fault.

Here's a start on child killing...

Murder in the Bible

[Margaret Pilkington]

what is that old saying....I know it is french, but as we are not allowed foreign stuff.....it is look for the woman Even Adam blamed Eve!

All the murders are from the Old Testament of the bible.....and I have to admit my bible history is very rusty, but do they actually all advocate killing/murder.

Anyway, that does not detract from the fact that marriage is a sacrament that can only be between a man and a woman.........and the government can change a law but it will not change the opinion of those whose conscience is compromised by a change of definition.
I will wait and see when the first muslim same sex marriage is performed.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I will wait and see when the first muslim same sex marriage is performed.

That would make the Muslims even tighter than the Jews!

Even Jews don't have a wedding reception and a wake on the same day to save on catering.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by susie123

That was Lot's wife, she turned and looked behind her when commanded not to. It wasn't his fault.

Here's a start on child killing...

Murder in the Bible

ahh well she obviously got what she deserved then lol

christianity has been around quite a while now and it seems like the con/lib co-alition this jesus/god co-alition isnt doing too well either and both need to be scrapped

[gynn]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Where in the bible does it defend slavery and advocate the murdering of children?

Slavery:

Titus 2:9
"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them"

1 Peter 2:18
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

Col 3:22
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord."

Murdering children:

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death."

And there are probably other quotes.

Just shows what an insult to the intelligence the argument that the Bible condemns homosexuality actually is!

[Restless]

Originally Posted by gynn

Slavery:

insult to the intelligence

Spot on

[Eric]

Originally Posted by davebtelford

Same sex marriage wasn't non-controversial when it was introduced in Canada (2004?). You just had the debate earlier, not all societies progress the same reforms at the same rate.

The debate, if there really was one, was a non-event. Homophobes on one side; the rest of us on the other. And most of the rest of us didn't see what all the fuss was about. I remember that lotsa folks wondered why gays would want to get married, given the high rate of divorce. Maybe the whole thing began in '67 or '68 when Pierre Trudeau came up with his "the state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation." Also, it's worth remembering that Canada, like the US, is a complex of different governments ... Idividual Provinces have a lot of powers granted them by the British North America Act of 1867 ... so, recognizing gay marriage came in Ontario in, I think, 2001. The serious questions surrounding gay unions concerned, not morality nor religion, but benefits and tax deductions ... it wasn't about how you got your jollies, but about allowable tax deductions for a non-working spouse, and stuff like that. Moral questions usually take a back seat to money.