School Photos

[Caz]

People think that cause they have a 8 megapixel £80 digital camera that they can take good pictures

Maybe not technically brilliant, but in a lot of cases, certainly more interesting than saying "Sausages" to a camera!

My daughter was asked to do this, and she has a lisp. She will probably be forever embarassed by that photo!

[Lilly]

Originally Posted by entwisi

Hang on, I'll stand up for teh photographer here.

He had to go to the school, spend all day taking the pictures on equipment that probably costs £2K upwards. Then he has to crop/post process etc them all ( 300 kids/school), print samples for each child(again 300 with no guarantee of a sale), compile sets with child and class pictures in, wait 2 months for orders, then print them at full photo quality, frame them in the frames he has bought and again package them up for you. He also knows you are likely to buy 1 set, scan them and print your own for grandma etc.

In all honesty I reckon its not badly priced. teh technology and product is not what you a re paying for, its time and expertise

People think that cause they have a 8 megapixel £80 digital camera that they can take good pictures. Thats not true. There is an art to taking pictures and there is a world of difference between teh quality of a 80 quid point and shoot and a 16 megapixel digital camera with a very expensive piece of glass on the front.

Caz, this is why the school could not take the photos themselves for school funds.

[West Ender]

Wait 2 months for orders? No, they've got to be in, with a cheque, by Monday the 10th - 4 days time. Frames? Just cardboard folders, You want a nice frame? Go to Boots and buy one. Time I may agree with, though what the hell else would he be doing with his time if not going to schools? Expertise, not so, it's the equipment that makes the good print and that equipment isn't used, solely, for school photos.

[Caz]

Caz, this is why the school could not take the photos themselves for school funds

Why? you mean coz not technically brilliant?

See my last post.

Ya gotta agree, most photos taken with a pessy run of the mill digi camera, are better coz they are interesting! They are photos of people as they are, not posed saying stupid things, but doing what they do. everyone can take reasonable quality pics these days with camera or phone, which is why they resent paying these prices.

[Gayle]

It's actually illegal to copy photographs. The copyright remains the photographers at all times, even if it's your child and even if you buy a print that's all you're actually buying - a print. You can't copy them without the photographers permission, which of course, you won't get unless you buy the digital disc which they sometimes sell as an option - then you can reproduce.

If you take school pictures to a photocopiers then they should refuse to copy them because that means that they would be breaking the law too. Scanning them and sending them in email is also against the law.

[katex]

I always purchased my son's school photographs, they were always better than ones I could take myself, and have got better and better. Can't understand why I have only one of my daughter .. maybe they weren't doing them very often then .. Or possibly, she wouldn't let me if anything less than perfect, and she thought didn't do her any favours ..

Just wait until your children graduate from Uni .. didn't get these due to the cost ... sure they were about £50 ! My brother took some of my son in the grounds of the University and came out rather well, although not quite the same as studio surroundings, but I was pleased with them anyway, even though his robe was a bit sqew wiff (no idea how to spell that !) on his Master's one

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by Gayle

If you take school pictures to a photocopiers then they should refuse to copy them because that means that they would be breaking the law too. Scanning them and sending them in email is also against the law.

Even down to things like having the photo put on a cake at Asda infringes copyright. In fact the reproduction issues of copyright material are more stringent than the reproduction issues of humans

[entwisi]

Originally Posted by West Ender

Wait 2 months for orders? No, they've got to be in, with a cheque, by Monday the 10th - 4 days time. Frames? Just cardboard folders, You want a nice frame? Go to Boots and buy one. Time I may agree with, though what the hell else would he be doing with his time if not going to schools? Expertise, not so, it's the equipment that makes the good print and that equipment isn't used, solely, for school photos.

Expertise I am afraid is right. It takes a good photographer to get the right angle, positioning and capturing that spilt second that the child is 'at its best'

Frames - Even those cardboard ones cost money you know. how do you expect the photographer to know what type of frame will suit everyone, they can't so they use a common base denominator.

The sort of cameras and lenses and printers and PCs required to do all this work is horrendously expensive and he can't just have one, he needs a backup as well in case he has a problem on site and even at home. Its also not the sort of job that he has a constant stream of work, he has to make it when there is work there. what % uptake do you reckon they get at teh school, I would be surprised if its much over 50%.

Then there is employers and employees tax, premises(if not home based), NI, and dare I say the dirty word "Profit". and there is the risk that no -one will buy his picttures due to teh "credit crunch" or other outside factors.


I think people are quite unfair at what sort of overheads it takes to do this sort of work professionally.

And the biggy, If you are happy with 'your' picture of little johnny in his uniform then don't buy the school one! No -one is forcing you.

[jaysay]

I seem to remember learning about copyright a couple of years ago

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by jaysay

I seem to remember learning about copyright a couple of years ago

Mmm, yes, I seem to remember you learning about copyright a few years ago too.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by entwisi

Hang on, I'll stand up for teh photographer here.

He had to go to the school, spend all day taking the pictures on equipment that probably costs £2K upwards. Then he has to crop/post process etc them all ( 300 kids/school), print samples for each child(again 300 with no guarantee of a sale), compile sets with child and class pictures in, wait 2 months for orders, then print them at full photo quality, frame them in the frames he has bought and again package them up for you. He also knows you are likely to buy 1 set, scan them and print your own for grandma etc.

In all honesty I reckon its not badly priced. teh technology and product is not what you a re paying for, its time and expertise

People think that cause they have a 8 megapixel £80 digital camera that they can take good pictures. Thats not true. There is an art to taking pictures and there is a world of difference between teh quality of a 80 quid point and shoot and a 16 megapixel digital camera with a very expensive piece of glass on the front.

And if all the photo's are sold he takes well over 5 grand for his work, less obviously for those not sold. I wonder how much actual time will be spent doing and what the processing costs will be?

I will guess at 1 week's work and £1000 costs and he makes £4000. Only a guess of course.

[Gayle]

I've just been doing some sums and I think that you two are way out with quantities and costs.

Take my kids school for example - 240 pupils - allowing for families i.e. brother and sister photographed together = 150 'shots'.

150 shots - then assuming roughly half take it up with an average spend of £15.

75 x 15 = £1,125.

So the photographer makes approx £1,125 per school - assuming that some schools are bigger but many smaller than St Mary's.

There are usually two staff there - photographer and assistant - and I would imagine it can take up to a week's worth of admin including making up samples, putting them in frames, bagging them and sending them to the school plus when the orders come producing the finished results.

Two people, plus premises and equipment - £1,125 for a weeks work for two people doesn't go that far.

[West Ender]

In the case of Laura's school there are about 200 pupils. Our particular order is going to be £55 (the other nannie and granddad are ordering too). This is quite an affluent area, so I'm pretty sure there will be a good many orders of well over the £18.50 for the 2 standard shots, but there are parents of children at the school who are not very well off as well as the better off ones.

What really annoys me is that a friend of mine has a daughter who teaches in Warrington, in a much "poorer" area, and their school photos are about 20% cheaper. I think it's the same photographer, though I may be wrong. The photographer must be making a profit out of that school or he wouldn't do it, so - he's making a killing here.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by West Ender

In the case of Laura's school there are about 200 pupils. Our particular order is going to be £55 (the other nannie and granddad are ordering too).

Thats a good point that. Some parents won't buy the minimum, others will but extra so maybe saying one sale per child is near enough for our estimates.

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by West Ender

In the case of Laura's school there are about 200 pupils. Our particular order is going to be £55 (the other nannie and granddad are ordering too). This is quite an affluent area, so I'm pretty sure there will be a good many orders of well over the £18.50 for the 2 standard shots, but there are parents of children at the school who are not very well off as well as the better off ones.

What really annoys me is that a friend of mine has a daughter who teaches in Warrington, in a much "poorer" area, and their school photos are about 20% cheaper. I think it's the same photographer, though I may be wrong. The photographer must be making a profit out of that school or he wouldn't do it, so - he's making a killing here.

Maybe the school itself is adding more of a commision on ? does anyone know what sort of percentage the schools actually make on these ?