September 11th.... - Page 2

JohnW · 13-09-2004, 17:14

Wow, that is quite an article Bazf. Very worrying. I think most of us knew of the problem, maybe we were less aware of the extent of it.

Ceejache · 13-09-2004, 19:37

Get Mr Hassan Butt and his ilk chucked out of the country - people like this are potential 'sleepers' and a danger to national security.

By 'his ilk' I mean militant Muslims.....

Ifty · 13-09-2004, 21:43

In truth Allah does not say fight. He says peace. The Prophet Muhammad says:

"Shall I not tell you what is better than prayers and fasting and giving alms to the poor? It is making peace between one another: enmity and malice destroy all virtues."

Qu'ran does not speak war but peace. True.

Bazf · 13-09-2004, 22:58

Ifty the point is not what is written but how individuals act on those words.

Busman747 · 14-09-2004, 00:24

Ifty,
We can all appreciate what you say and appreciate that the vast majority of muslims believe in peace but unfortunately, like ALL religions, there are those few who translate their beliefs differently! I for one do not hold Muslims accountable for the rantings of a few.

To compare, just look at the Irish situation in the 80's and 90's. The I.R.A. acting "on the behalf of southern Ireland" killed and maimed thousands of british subjects, and yet, many Irish people spent that time living in the U.K. without having a worry about petrol bombs being put through their door in the early hours of the morning! That! as you should know is the attitude of the British people.

I seem to have gained a reputation on this site for being anti-PC, and this is another example. These so called "leaders" that profess to kill or incite killing in the name of their prophet Mohammad are a disgrace to their religion and should have been banished at their first utterance! no other country in the world would put up with this, and it is quite likely, they would have been arrested/deported/hung immediately in any other country.

Unfortunately, the U.K. is scared sh**less that there will be a backlash from the P.C. brigade if they considered deportation let alone decapitation!

I think, what I am waiting for (and many others) is for the peaceful muslim population to sort out their own! YOU have the power and understanding that our government does not have, When it is seen that the Muslim population has risen against the outbursts of the fanatical few, the trust and bonding between our religions will be stronger than ever.

We are an integrated country but should not be a platform for other countries and people to impose their wishes upon us.

Ceejache · 14-09-2004, 06:58

Hear, hear Busman - my sentiments to a tee. I cant stand religions but as far as they go Islam seems as good as any - although I'm not down with women having to cover up most of their body, I'd like to think that us men could resist seeing an earlobe without feeling the urge to procreate there and then.....I know many Christians and they are more hypocritical and two-faced as us 'heathens' and the Hare Krishnas blind you with tales of eight armed beings from the seventh layer of Nirvana becoming the incarnation of Vishnu.....and then ask for money. I've said before but....religion has caused humankind nothing but grief.

"Allah says fight"????? When did tooled up cowards hijacking a passenger plane full of unarmed and innocent civilians including women and children and then flying said plane with a full tank of fuel into a skyscraper also full of innocent and unarmed civilians become 'fighting'????? Al-queda think they've got an army? Just a ragtag bunch of faceless cowards I'm afraid - just like the IRA, UDR, ETA and other such terrorist 'armies'.

Ifty · 14-09-2004, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazf

Ifty the point is not what is written but how individuals act on those words.

That was my meaning Bazf because it is quote on first page Hassan Butt says "Allah says fight".

Busman I cannot make laws to get rid of terrorist or militant any more than an Irish Catholic in England can make law to get rid of IRA here. I hear what your saying but goverment needs to act. What happens when they do? European court of human rights goes against it. So what to do? I do not know. Many leaders speak out against the bad things but have no control of what is done. Each is responsible and will answer to Allah. I know this does not solve problems now and its not the answer you want.

Where is anyone else who can give opinions? I am a minority here and only speaking for myself.

WillowTheWhisp · 14-09-2004, 09:00

Are there still any treasonable offences in this country? Is that the right word "treasonable"?

Ceejache · 14-09-2004, 09:14

On the contrary Ifty - you are part of a majority who want peace and understanding between people of different creed and colour!

You are right - the Government must act. Their hands have unfortunately been tied by the PC idiots who are that far up their own backsides and too full of self-importance to see that their actions are putting this country at risk, indeed I'd go as far as saying that their actions are sending this country down the toilet.

What about this new law - 'Incitement to Provoke Racial Hatred' - is this going to be applied fairly to all creeds? I hope so but one thinks not.....

JohnW · 14-09-2004, 10:58

I do not think there is much that Ifty can do than he is not doing already. He can't deport the potential terrorists, neither is it lawful for him to go out and kill them just because he is of the same creed or shares the same origin. I think what he can do is to lead by example. He is doing that by integrating, by having discussion on this forum, by showing the people of his creed and origin that it is possible to have sensible discussion with people of other creeds and to agree to disagree on certain points. He is showing that this can be done in a non-violent way and that if we respect each other we can live together. He is on here making friends and will hopefully attend some of the social evenings. This will encourage others like him, who are open minded to try to do the same. Well done Ifty, keep posting, make friends, be a good person, show people of all creeds that this is all possible. There will be some fanatics who will never be persuaded however so don't lose faith or give up because you have failures. This is what integration is all about and you have a chance to make a difference by your actions.

Bazf · 14-09-2004, 12:58

Ifty how do you know your the minority no one puts on thier profiles their ethnic background? The artical was not an attack on muslims but a comment on where Islam is going. The overwhelming majority of Muslims condemn violence committed in their religion's name. Many Islamic scholars take pains to point out that the basic texts of the faith never sanction the wanton murder of civilians—the defining feature of contemporary Islamic terrorism. But rage is shared by tens of thousands of radicals, estimated conservatively, who span the globe, from the badlands of Pakistan to middle-class neighborhoods of Western Europe. In Britain, a recent government survey put the number of hard-core Muslim radicals at 10,000 and growing. A poll of British Muslims in March found that 13% believe that "further attacks by al-Qaeda or similar organizations on the U.S.A." would be justified.

"Does it rank up there with chopping someone's head off on television? It doesn't."
— Donald Rumsfeld

Ifty · 14-09-2004, 14:39

Bazf I was answering Busman saying that I don't know what I can do. Ceejache and JohnW know my ethnic background and speak refering to it. I have made comments on this subject.

Ceejache I am with you 100% saying

Quote:

Government must act. Their hands have unfortunately been tied by the PC idiots who are that far up their own backsides and too full of self-importance to see that their actions are putting this country at risk, indeed I'd go as far as saying that their actions are sending this country down the toilet.

This is what I said before when meaning about one sort of name calling is against PC but another isnt. This makes problems. Also now too much is made of some things where there is no real problem. Like I said if somebody calls me a name its them got the problem not me.

All of you who can see that it isnt everybody who wants to create war this is good. Most people just want to get on with their lives. I dont know how to change the people who dont want this.

You can see even if I just try sometimes here to answer and explain if I misunderstand someone it brings an angry reply. I could react with anger against it but I dont want to do that. Too many people think anger is the only way. Anger and fight. This is not good. But how to change the minds of people who disagree I do not know.

Darby · 14-09-2004, 14:57

Well said Ifty
"Most people just want to get on with their lives. I dont know how to change the people who dont want this.

You can see even if I just try sometimes here to answer and explain if I misunderstand someone it brings an angry reply. I could react with anger against it but I dont want to do that. Too many people think anger is the only way. Anger and fight. This is not good. But how to change the minds of people who disagree I do not know."

To be honest with you....nobody knows what to do...that's why the terrorists are so successful.!!

I..like most others...just want to get on with our day-to-day lives. Personally, I feel the media have a lot to answer for!

Ifty · 14-09-2004, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darby

media have a lot to answer for!

good point

Acrylic-bob · 18-09-2004, 09:49

For those of you interested in such things, there is an excellent website here

http://www.letsroll911.org

It provides an exhaustive coverage of the various theories surrounding that dreadfull day. Well worth a look.