Sharia Law Rules OK! - Page 13

Splinter · 23-09-2008, 19:10

I cannot bring myself to believe in that which has never presented itself to me.

I have never been to Australia, but my husband lived there for a while, so I know it is there. Maps have shown me, I drink Australian wine, I watched Skippy!!

But where is the God proof?

I do not believe the bible. Too many translations over time.

WillowTheWhisp · 23-09-2008, 19:28

I understand your problem with the Bible and totally agree with you. Not only have there been numerous translations there have been many things left out when the compilation was decided upon several hundred years after Jesus left this earth.

jaysay · 24-09-2008, 09:59

I find Religion to be a very imotive subject, People have their own thoughts on religion, just like people have different prespectives on politics. I would never think of trying to ram my religion down anybody elses throat, religion is a persons own particular choice. In my earlier post I was making a lighthearted coment on splinters posts, nothing more. I also have the same outlook on politics really, it would be futile to think I could change a committed Labour supporter to my way of think, it ain't going to happen

jambutty · 24-09-2008, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

I find Religion to be a very imotive subject, People have their own thoughts on religion, just like people have different prespectives on politics. I would never think of trying to ram my religion down anybody elses throat, religion is a persons own particular choice. In my earlier post I was making a lighthearted coment on splinters posts, nothing more. I also have the same outlook on politics really, it would be futile to think I could change a committed Labour supporter to my way of think, it ain't going to happen

Unfortunately hard line, militant, extremist Muslims do not share your view. Their primary aim is to turn the whole world into an Islamic world. And they don’t shirk from using force to do so.

The greater majority of Muslims out of direct influence of the hard liners just want to live in peace where they are and get on with their lives. Unfortunately, just like with the Catholics several hundred years ago when the church said jump the response was how high, the moderate Muslim will also say how high when the command comes.

The real tragedy of this situation is that not only is our government allowing it to happen but actually encouraging it to happen.

Gingerninja · 24-09-2008, 12:42

Ah..the old adage never discuss religion or politics seems to be true - as others have said - they are far too emotive subjects. I am atheist, my father agnostic, my mother Cof E - but by fellow siblings and I were christened Methodist (it was the nearest church) - I enjoyed the brownies, guides, Sunday School, MAYC - up to the age when I could question and make up my own mind. And that is the crux here - the ability to choose - I perceive that in some religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism - that right to choose is not as straightforward as in my non religion. I'm not indoctrinated - and I will not indoctrinate - everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe - as long as it does no harm to others and causes those who do not believe in that particular ideology to fear and be intimidated - point me to any religion or belief that doesn't do that to someone - somewhere....

Splinter · 24-09-2008, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

Unfortunately hard line, militant, extremist Muslims do not share your view. Their primary aim is to turn the whole world into an Islamic world. And they don’t shirk from using force to do so.

The greater majority of Muslims out of direct influence of the hard liners just want to live in peace where they are and get on with their lives. Unfortunately, just like with the Catholics several hundred years ago when the church said jump the response was how high, the moderate Muslim will also say how high when the command comes.

The real tragedy of this situation is that not only is our government allowing it to happen but actually encouraging it to happen.

Could not agree more.

jambutty · 25-09-2008, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

When were Adam and Eve created?

How many years BC?

I see that none of the bible punchers have replied to my question.

Could it be that if they did commit to X number of years BC we non-believers could then present real verifiable scientific proof that creationism is a load of cobblers?

WillowTheWhisp · 25-09-2008, 18:06

I suppose you are waiting for someone to say 4000BC but in actual fact we don't really know and any sensible Christian would avoid answering a question to which there is no specific answer. Some have deduced 4000BC by calculating ages and so on, but we don't have all the evidence or relevant information and it's not an accurate way of going about things.

It's like the 'seven days' of creation. The term 'day' is used but we have no idea how long a Heavenly day is.

Gayle · 25-09-2008, 19:07

I totally admire anyone who has absolute faith in anything, it's one thing to believe something when you have proof but it's another to believe so firmly in something without concrete proof. But I equally admire people who are resolutely convinced that there is no God either.

That's not to say that I don't believe in God, to be honest I have no idea what to believe - I'd like to keep my options open just in case he does exist but on the other hand I have a scepticism about the whole thing. I think I'm probably like the majority of people in the country at the moment.

Surely, if God was going to 'show' himself to anyone I'd be the ideal candidate for a viewing as it could just tip the balance for me.

Splinter · 25-09-2008, 19:18

I neither believe not disbelieve. The only possible 'proof' that God may exist is the Bible, written by man.

jambutty · 26-09-2008, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I suppose you are waiting for someone to say 4000BC but in actual fact we don't really know and any sensible Christian would avoid answering a question to which there is no specific answer. Some have deduced 4000BC by calculating ages and so on, but we don't have all the evidence or relevant information and it's not an accurate way of going about things.

It's like the 'seven days' of creation. The term 'day' is used but we have no idea how long a Heavenly day is.

Yes indeed I am. Because the bible believers seem to have everything else tied down as fact. So why the reticence in dating creation day? That’s a cop out if ever there was one.

I would have thought that a sensible Christian would try to find the date of creation with respect to our calendar to disprove the sceptics once and for all. The fact that creation cannot be dated is simply because there wasn’t one, at least not in the way described in the scriptures.

As for the term day as in on the 6th day God created Adam and Eve etc. This foible was written by a human person so it is most likely that he was referring to an earth day. He would not have had any other reference point. So trying to pass it off as a heavenly day or a universal day is another cop out.

Science has proven beyond dispute that the earth is at least 4 billion years old. So if God created this planet he must have done so some 4 billions years ago. The old testament was written from about 1400 BC onwards about events that happened billions of years ago. So where did the writers get their information from? Word of mouth? From very, very old scriptures perhaps? Either way it just doesn’t wash.

What you believe in is your own affair and it is your prerogative to do so but please don’t try and present your beliefs as fact.

Splinter · 26-09-2008, 16:58

Well said jambutty!! I too believe creationism to be bunkum. No proof, and not even logic available for this 'belief'.

I'm with Darwin, totally logical and somewhat provable.

Gayle · 26-09-2008, 17:07

Though, surely the 'creation' days are in the right order - created planets, sky and moon, plants, fish, animals etc. It's the same process as evolution but put in the story context of days. I think that whoever wrote Genesis did it as a story based on the process of evolution.

Splinter · 26-09-2008, 17:19

But creationists do not believe in evolution, 'God made everything' is their mantra.

Eric · 26-09-2008, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

I see that none of the bible punchers have replied to my question.

Could it be that if they did commit to X number of years BC we non-believers could then present real verifiable scientific proof that creationism is a load of cobblers?

There are many stabs at dating creation: In Shakespeare's "As You Like It," Rosalind says, "The poor world is almost six thousand years old." This probably reflects contemporary popular belief. Martin Luther had it at 4000 BC, Johannes Kepler at 3992 BC, and the most accurate, or, at least, precise, of all was Bishop James Ussher who set it on 23d October, 4004 BC.