Sharia Law Rules OK!

[shillelagh]

Originally Posted by cashman

no jen that her age.

Your living dangerously there cashy .........

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by blazey

My school didn't force religion on anyone though all catholic students were expected to attend mass but it was just a gathering like an assembly really, it didn't teach the strict catholic views nor did it impose having holy communion on anyone if they didn't want to.

My school accepted muslim students though and I know there were other children from different religions who went, for example I recall a rastafarian girl at the school who used to live on my street.

Religious schools generally aren't strict anymore in that sense and you choose to send your child to a religious school anyway so it's simple enough to opt out of it entirely. Why should the choice to go to a religious school be taken away though? I chose to go to my high school even though I could have gone to another non-religious school.

Can children not make religious choices?

Well blazey its changed since I went to school, I went to St Mary's, and we had a Sunday Mass register, i.e. you had to have a good excuse for not going. You had to learn the catachism from front to back, and was regulaly questioned abou it, and had the teachings of the church rammeddown your neck at every oppertunity, but I'm still a card carring member

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by lancsdave

Thats easy to answer ...... football, the best religion in the world

I can understand that dave, you ending up praying for the Dingles every Saturday afternoon

[jaysay]

A leading Labour Muslim MP Sadiq Khan has said that a lot of British muslims in this country suffer from "victim mentality" he also said that Britsh Muslims must tckle sexism, learn English and condemn forced marriages, don't think the guys far wrong myself

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by blazey

Leviticus 18: 22 of the Bible pretty much preaches hate for homosexuals. Do you think this means I must believe and live by that because I went to a Catholic School?

The bible is full of all sorts of old fashioned ideology, though I'd like to think any human being capable of learning to read would also be capable of making up their own mind about things.

Unfortunately children are introduced to their parent’s religion from the day they are born. They get taken to the church as babes, then toddlers and go to a church school. They are in effect brain washed to believe in that religion. Don’t forget that in the first five years of life and beyond children are like sponges and will believe everything that is told them, because they know no different.

The religious message is reinforced in church schools with prayers during morning assembly and a period of RI at least once a week.

By the time that the kids reach their teens many see through the religious charade, rebel and throw off the shackles. But the initial teaching is so well embedded that even in later life they can still remember their religious upbringing even if they no longer follow it.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

Teaching several religions in schools gives children a choice, but instills the idea that a choice should be made.
I compare it to being offered a rotten apple and a mouldy pear - 'which one are you going to eat?' - the option to refuse both doesn't arise.
They should also be advised that opt out is also acceptable.

Religion is taught in schools in the same way that every other subject is taught. There is no implication that a child must choose to follow one of the religions they learn about. Just because a child is taught mathematics doesn't mean they will become a mathematician, or being taught chemistry doesn't mean they are going to end up being a scientist. It's all theoretical at that stage. They just learn that "This is what some people believe and how they go about practicing their religion" - NB they are also taught that some people choose not to believe anything.

Originally Posted by cashman

theres many different types of mathematics may as well give em the choice to opt out of that as well.

Maybe they should be able to opt out of geography too - after all this is Britain, don't want to contaminate their minds with the idea that there are a lot of foreign countries out there!

Originally Posted by blazey

I'm just getting offended by this topic now so I'm just going to leave it for other people to argue because sometimes there is just no compromise with some people. It's either their way or it's wrong, and i'm not willing to discuss things that mean a lot to me with close minded people.

From this conversation you have made me feel like I am wrong for being the way I am, and that is no different than those who pressure religion onto other people, so you have more in common with them than you think.

I agree. Some people take atheism to such an extreme that it actually becomes their religion and they try to force it onto others whilst complaining that they are having religion forced down their own throats. There is nothing more forceful than an opinionated atheist IMO.

Originally Posted by jambutty

Unfortunately children are introduced to their parent’s religion from the day they are born. They get taken to the church as babes, then toddlers and go to a church school. They are in effect brain washed to believe in that religion. Don’t forget that in the first five years of life and beyond children are like sponges and will believe everything that is told them, because they know no different.

The religious message is reinforced in church schools with prayers during morning assembly and a period of RI at least once a week.

By the time that the kids reach their teens many see through the religious charade, rebel and throw off the shackles. But the initial teaching is so well embedded that even in later life they can still remember their religious upbringing even if they no longer follow it.

I was the opposite. My parents didn't go to church and I didn't go to a church school. I didn't go to Sunday school but rebelled at a very young age because I didn't believe everything I was told. So my initial teaching wasn't very well embedded at all because I made my own choice in adulthood.

Our church doesn't have its own schools. My children attended/attend state schools where they had/have RE classes where they are taught about other religions. Our own denomination is never featured because the schools know so very little about it. So my children are taught to question and compare and make their own minds up. In our church they are encouraged to do the same.

[shakermaker]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

There is nothing more forceful than an opinionated atheist IMO.

Forceful? Try radical followers of Islam who blow people up in the name of Allah, and Christian radicals who indoctrinate young children into living for hate and train them to publicly assault people who they see as 'fags' for not living by God's will (as seen in Louis Theroux's 'The Most Hated Family in America' programme, and countless other reports).
No atheist has ever set bombs off in the name of Atheism, as the minority of religious radicals have done for their belief.

[Loz]

Originally Posted by shakermaker

Forceful? Try radical followers of Islam who blow people up in the name of Allah, and Christian radicals who indoctrinate young children into living for hate and train them to publicly assault people who they see as 'fags' for not living by God's will (as seen in Louis Theroux's 'The Most Hated Family in America' programme, and countless other reports).
No atheist has ever set bombs off in the name of Atheism, as the minority of religious radicals have done for their belief.

Well said Shakermaker!
Have to say i'm with Margeret on this one.
I went to a CofE school and a lot of time was devoted to the church and religion.
Apart from our regular R.E classes,we had assemblys with the vicar and sang hymns and had to go to church regularly too.
I hated it at the time because i thought it was boring!
As i got older i realised i not only found much of it boring and pointless but ludicrous too so have never set foot in a church since and am a committed atheist.
I'm not saying i'm right and i won't attack people for their beliefs,each to their own,just that i don't and will never understand religion and people who are deeply committed to a faith.

[Lilly]

Well, I'm with Blazey on this one.

I still don't understand why some people think we should not have any church schools. Each to their own and all that with regards to religion. You don't have to send your child to a church school if you don't want to but I still don't understand why some people don't want church schools to exist.

What's it matter if you're not involved?

[Lilly]

Originally Posted by Neil

You can ask yes, but I won't answer

You're a strange one.

I must remember to ask you what the hell you're talking about when I see you.

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by Lilly

What's it matter if you're not involved?

They are state subsidised from the tax I pay.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Loz

Have to say i'm with Margeret on this one.
I went to a CofE school ............
.............. As i got older i realised i not only found much of it boring and pointless but ludicrous too so have never set foot in a church since and am a committed atheist.

That would seem to disprove the theory of indoctrination.

[shakermaker]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

That would seem to disprove the theory of indoctrination.

What theory of indoctrination would that be?
It's parents that indoctrinate children not schools. Thankfully we are getting towards a stage where silly things such as the story of creation are taught in RE classes and not Science in faith schools, and are regarded as 'what some people may believe...' rather than fact. Christian faith schools aren't the hardline religious institutions they used to be because it was basically borderline child abuse. Stories of fire and brimstone fearing kids into believing in God? Pllllease.
The only indoctrination that goes on is from parents instilling children with the affirmation that 'you are a Roman Catholic child' or 'you are a Muslim child' etc. It's sick. It's as absurd as sticking a conservative, socialist or liberal label on the child.

[Stanleymad]

Originally Posted by shakermaker

What theory of indoctrination would that be?
It's parents that indoctrinate children not schools. Thankfully we are getting towards a stage where silly things such as the story of creation are taught in RE classes and not Science in faith schools, and are regarded as 'what some people may believe...' rather than fact.

Is that why mount carmel is a science college these days sorry couldnt resist lol

[Eric]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

In the same way that politics and religion is a bad mix, so is religion and education.
If you want your children brainwashed into the same beliefs as yourself, then do it yourself, or pay to send them to classes that will

The problem that people seem concerned about is not that politics and religion is a bad mix .... it's that in Islamic states and communities politics and religion are inseperable. Islam and Islamic states grew up together. In fact, Islam preceded the Islamic states. In the western tradition, christianity arrived in a system that was already established. Apart from some serious debate (altho' that debate now seems anachronistic, even silly) mainly between 1050 and 1300, western tradition is based on a separation of church and state. Even the bible mentions the "two swords", the secular and the sacred ... After the collapse of the western empire, people looked to the church for leadership .... Sorry folks, I'm laspsing into pedantry ... but the point is that islamic states and communities are radically different from those which grew out of the western democratic tradition ... east is east and west etc. Like it or not, there is a war going on ... and the front lines are not only in Afghanistan and Iraq ... they are in New York, in London on your buses and subways, in your own communities ... in a lot of ways muslim immigration into England reminds me of the Trojan Horse. I don't suppose any of you forget that the terrorists who set the bombs in London were "home grown."