Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader' - Page 8

garinda · 04-05-2008, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

It was if he should resign as labour group leader not councillor as your posts seem to suggest.

I didn't suggest anything of the kind.

I just commented that the people in his ward who've replied seemed very happy with the job he's doing, and that the vast majority of people who've voted in your poll don't think he should resign.

A very clear statement, for all but the most blinkered to understand.

If this constant snipping at the opposition, rather than coming out with anything new and positive, is the face of 'New Conservatism', it's not really pursuading me to vote for them.

andrewb · 04-05-2008, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

I didn't suggest anything of the kind.

I just commented that the people in his ward who've replied seemed very happy with the job he's doing, and that the vast majority of people who've voted in your poll don't think he should resign.

A very clear statement, for all but the most blinkered to understand.

If this constant snipping at the opposition, rather than coming out with anything new and positive, is the face of 'New Conservatism', it's not really pursuading me to vote for them.

You did suggest it by mentioning his ward. I wasn't questioning at all the notion that people in his ward like him. I was questioning his leader of the labour group status as surely the job of the leader is to make progress within the borough and stand up to be held responsible for misleading people in leaflets.

I am not a politician, it's not my job to come up with new policies, but yes I have been positive, but no not when I'm criticising something I think is wrong. It's only right that whatever party you belong in, if you can see where the public are being completely mislead, you should stand up and say 'that is wrong'.

Gayle · 04-05-2008, 13:04

I've got to admit Cyfr this really doesn't sound like you at all. You seem to have got a bee in your bonnet about the statistics Labour printed yet you're completely ignoring all the so called 'facts' that the Conservatives printed.

So let's look at a couple of details on the Conservative leaflet and see if you want to answer them.

I'm looking at Brian Walmsley's leaflet right now - it says
"in 5 short years Conservatives have transformed Labours near-bankrupt council into one that we can all take great pride". Can you please justify the phrase 'near-bankrupt'? What basis is that claim made on?

Energy saving grants - big deal made about this yet isn't this a government initiative which last time I checked was still Labour, so is this Conservative Council claiming credit for something the Government has introduced?

garinda · 04-05-2008, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

I have been positive

I think that one is open to debate, and there is evidence all over this forum to suggest otherwise.

Same old, same old, as far as politics is concerned.

Boring...and sadly not new at all.

jaysay · 04-05-2008, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

I've got to admit Cyfr this really doesn't sound like you at all. You seem to have got a bee in your bonnet about the statistics Labour printed yet you're completely ignoring all the so called 'facts' that the Conservatives printed.

So let's look at a couple of details on the Conservative leaflet and see if you want to answer them.

I'm looking at Brian Walmsley's leaflet right now - it says
"in 5 short years Conservatives have transformed Labours near-bankrupt council into one that we can all take great pride". Can you please justify the phrase 'near-bankrupt'? What basis is that claim made on?

Energy saving grants - big deal made about this yet isn't this a government initiative which last time I checked was still Labour, so is this Conservative Council claiming credit for something the Government has introduced?

Your first point Gayle, 65 yers ago HBC were had a black hole of about £1.8 million caused by the Labour Party when in office, only around 4 months ago the Audit commision gave the council a clean bill of health
your second point Energy saving grants were brought in by the Tories in Hyndburn of a certain age group an had nothing to do with the government

andrewb · 04-05-2008, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

I've got to admit Cyfr this really doesn't sound like you at all. You seem to have got a bee in your bonnet about the statistics Labour printed yet you're completely ignoring all the so called 'facts' that the Conservatives printed.

So let's look at a couple of details on the Conservative leaflet and see if you want to answer them.

I'm looking at Brian Walmsley's leaflet right now - it says
"in 5 short years Conservatives have transformed Labours near-bankrupt council into one that we can all take great pride". Can you please justify the phrase 'near-bankrupt'? What basis is that claim made on?

Energy saving grants - big deal made about this yet isn't this a government initiative which last time I checked was still Labour, so is this Conservative Council claiming credit for something the Government has introduced?

I am currently in Hull so I can't go to the library and research the information in response to the near-bankrupt council. However saying that, I do recall reading that the council reserves were massively in the red, where as now we have a 1.5 or is it 1.8 million pound reserve?

It would be really helpful if you could scan a copy of the leaflet so I could read it in full context in reference to the energy stuff.

garinda · 04-05-2008, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

Your first point Gayle, 65 yers ago HBC were had a black hole of about £1.8 million caused by the Labour Party when in office, only around 4 months ago the Audit commision gave the council a clean bill of health
your second point Energy saving grants were brought in by the Tories in Hyndburn of a certain age group an had nothing to do with the government

How are these grants, intoduced locally by the Conservative council, different from the government introduced initiative? As I am confused.

Elderly urged to apply for help heating and insulating their homes : Directgov - Newsroom

I take it the 65 years ago was a mistake, as Hyndburn didn't come into existence until 1974.

jaysay · 04-05-2008, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

How are these grants, intoduced locally by the Conservative council, different from the government introduced initiative? As I am confused.

Elderly urged to apply for help heating and insulating their homes : Directgov - Newsroom

I take it the 65 years ago was a mistake, as Hyndburn didn't come into existence until 1974.

Well Rindi you see to keep abreast of the local press it was given enough coveage at the time, plus the link ou set up doesn't work, well it dosn't for me, so I don't know what your last statement wa about

lindsay ormerod · 04-05-2008, 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

Well Rindi you see to keep abreast of the local press it was given enough coveage at the time, plus the link ou set up doesn't work, well it dosn't for me, so I don't know what your last statement wa about

Link works for me.

shillelagh · 04-05-2008, 18:20

works for me too

Royboy39 · 04-05-2008, 18:25

Works here in Spain.....opens new window

jaysay · 04-05-2008, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by shillelagh

works for me too

Just tried it again nd it worked last time I tried it just threw an error message at me

The one from HBC is not means tested as far as I'm aware, you don't have to be on pensions credit and has been running around 12 months not this Feb

emamum · 04-05-2008, 18:26

works for me 2

derekgas · 04-05-2008, 18:29

works for me here in accy, but I already new about it, family gas care carry out some of these grants.

Gayle · 04-05-2008, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

I am currently in Hull so I can't go to the library and research the information in response to the near-bankrupt council. However saying that, I do recall reading that the council reserves were massively in the red, where as now we have a 1.5 or is it 1.8 million pound reserve?

It would be really helpful if you could scan a copy of the leaflet so I could read it in full context in reference to the energy stuff.

To be honest, I don't really care that much about your answer, all I'm trying to prove is the spin is on both sides and they're both using 'facts' to support their campaigns.

The word 'bankrupt' or 'near bankrupt' is very emotive phrase when in fact they were not near bankrupt, yes they had a deficit but at no point near bankruptcy. Also, the Council was in debt when the Conservatives were in last, admittedly nothing to repair it when Labour were in but in debt nontheless.

You may have an argument with the Labour leaflet but it's using legitimate figures taken from a reputable source whilst the Conservative leaflet is using emotional phrasing and claiming Central Government initiatives as their own. So let's face it - both as bad as each other and draw a line under it.