Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Thanks Gynn, first sensible post I've heard on the subject.

Are you sure you were right, when you said I was supposedly the Tory's 'secret weapon', in the run up to the elections?

Looks like I might have been usurped.

Thanks a lot.

[jaysay]

The only issues HBC should be concerned with are the problems which occur within its own boundaries, if people come to live in our country they come with the intention of making a better life for themselves and their families, leaving behind their problems. I have never understood people from other countries now living in GB marching, waving banners and placards about something happening thousands of miles away, if they want to get involved in problem solving in the country of birth the place to do it is back home in that country, not here, end of story. Before motor mouth jumps in on a party political issue, I was once informed by a Labour council that when they are in charge they set the agenda and take all the credit, the book stops with the ruling group, they could have said no, but they sanctioned.

[gynn]

Reading the original motion, and the watered down version that was finally voted through, it seems that some Henry Kissinger style diplomacy was displayed by someone at HBC to produce a result that made everyone happy. The Asian community felt that their concerns had been listened to, and everyone else could live with what was agreed.

I strongly disagree with the assertion that the issue should never have been discussed by the Council. The Council is there to represent the worries and concerns of the local community, and when the local community consists of a large Asian community, then the issues that concern them should be aired.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by gynn

Reading the original motion, and the watered down version that was finally voted through, it seems that some Henry Kissinger style diplomacy was displayed by someone at HBC to produce a result that made everyone happy. The Asian community felt that their concerns had been listened to, and everyone else could live with what was agreed.

I strongly disagree with the assertion that the issue should never have been discussed by the Council. The Council is there to represent the worries and concerns of the local community, and when the local community consists of a large Asian community, then the issues that concern them should be aired.

Gobledgoock gynn, HBC is the body that represents the people living in Hyndburn not 10, 000 miles away, if people who come from abroad and wish to get involved in whats going on "back home" the place to do it is not in the council chamber under the banner of HBC, sorry gynn

[garinda]

Originally Posted by gynn

Reading the original motion, and the watered down version that was finally voted through, it seems that some Henry Kissinger style diplomacy was displayed by someone at HBC to produce a result that made everyone happy. The Asian community felt that their concerns had been listened to, and everyone else could live with what was agreed.

I strongly disagree with the assertion that the issue should never have been discussed by the Council. The Council is there to represent the worries and concerns of the local community, and when the local community consists of a large Asian community, then the issues that concern them should be aired.

Well it seems you're in a tiny minority.

Most people seem to think it's the job of local councils to deal with local issues, not international ones.

That's the job of national government.

If residents want to make their feelings known, about an issue happening on the otherside of the world, they should lobby their representative in Westminster, their M.P.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by gynn

I strongly disagree with the assertion that the issue should never have been discussed by the Council. The Council is there to represent the worries and concerns of the local community, and when the local community consists of a large Asian community, then the issues that concern them should be aired.

The Council's purpose is to deal with LOCAL issues - not a situation occurring thousands of miles away in another country. Residents of Kashmiri origin may well be concerned about events in their country of origin, but that is NOT the concern of the local council.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by gynn

Reading the original motion, and the watered down version that was finally voted through, it seems that some Henry Kissinger style diplomacy was displayed by someone at HBC to produce a result that made everyone happy. The Asian community felt that their concerns had been listened to, and everyone else could live with what was agreed.

I strongly disagree with the assertion that the issue should never have been discussed by the Council. The Council is there to represent the worries and concerns of the local community, and when the local community consists of a large Asian community, then the issues that concern them should be aired.

Every fool knows that if Hyndburn had a sizeable minority of Hindu or Sikhs, instead of Muslims, the patsies on the council would have supported the Indian side in this conflict, condemning gang rape, and infanticide, carried out by the Pakistanis.

Hyndburn Borough Council allowed themselves to be used, to add weight to only one country's propaganda war, in the vain hope of securing votes.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by garinda

Every fool knows that if Hyndburn had a sizeable minority of Hindu or Sikhs, instead of Muslims, the patsies on the council would have supported the Indian side in this conflict, condemning gang rape, and infanticide, carried out by the Pakistanis.

Hyndburn Borough Council allowed themselves to be used, to add weight to only one country's propaganda war, in the vain hope of securing votes.

Besides which, local council - local issues.

International issues - the job of national government, in Parliament.

[gynn]

Let's have a look at the Council's Constitution.

http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa...sed_Jan_12.pdf

Amongst the key roles of Councillors are:

2.3 Roles and Functions of all councillors

II. represent their communities and bring their views into the Council’s decisionmaking process, i.e. become the advocate of and for their communities;
III. deal with individual casework and act as an advocate for constituents in resolving particular concerns or grievances;

Where does that limit them to local issues only? It constituents have a grievance regarding something that is happening in their community abroad, it is perfectly reasonable for their representative to raise it at Council.

Not gobbledygook, jaysay. Fact.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by gynn

Let's have a look at the Council's Constitution.

http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa...sed_Jan_12.pdf

Amongst the key roles of Councillors are:

2.3 Roles and Functions of all councillors

II. represent their communities and bring their views into the Council’s decisionmaking process, i.e. become the advocate of and for their communities;
III. deal with individual casework and act as an advocate for constituents in resolving particular concerns or grievances;

Where does that limit them to local issues only? It constituents have a grievance regarding something that is happening in their community abroad, it is perfectly reasonable for their representative to raise it at Council.

Not gobbledygook, jaysay. Fact.

Rubbish.

If people have grievances about international matters, they should lobby national government, who deal with international issues on our behalf.

It isn't the job of local government.

Or shouldn't be.

The last time we saw such stupidity was when loony left councils in the eighties involved themselves with various non-local concerns.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by gynn

Let's have a look at the Council's Constitution.

http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa...sed_Jan_12.pdf

Amongst the key roles of Councillors are:

2.3 Roles and Functions of all councillors

II. represent their communities and bring their views into the Council’s decisionmaking process, i.e. become the advocate of and for their communities;
III. deal with individual casework and act as an advocate for constituents in resolving particular concerns or grievances;

Where does that limit them to local issues only? It constituents have a grievance regarding something that is happening in their community abroad, it is perfectly reasonable for their representative to raise it at Council.

Not gobbledygook, jaysay. Fact.

It could be argued, that when one of our local councillors was allowed to submit this openly partisan, and prejudiced motion before the meeting of the full council, they were guilty of not adhering to this stated responsibility of a councillor.

'VIII. maintain the highest standards of conduct and ethics.'

http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa...sed_Jan_12.pdf

[Neil]

Originally Posted by gynn

Reading the original motion, and the watered down version that was finally voted through.....

Was it watered down before or after the vote?

[gynn]

Originally Posted by Neil

Was it watered down before or after the vote?

Well the following meeting of the Council agreed that the resolution was as agreed at the meeting:-

446 Confirmation of Minutes

Resolved - That the minutes of the Council meeting held on 10th November 2011 be approved as a correct record.

Presumably the legal opinion given was that the Kashmir item WAS a legitimate issue to be raised at Council. If we feel strongly that it shouldn't have been, we should be lobbying the Council to change the constitution.

In the meantime, we can't complain if any councillor acts within the rules. We can adopt a Daily Mail style of xenophobic ranting, but a more constructive path to go down might be reviewing the constitution.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by gynn

In the meantime, we can't complain if any councillor acts within the rules. We can adopt a Daily Mail style of xenophobic ranting, but a more constructive path to go down might be reviewing the constitution.

It isn't xenophobia.

Most people seem to have their head screwed on better than you.

The vast majority of people understand that national government should deal with international issues, not local government.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by gynn

In the meantime, we can't complain if any councillor acts within the rules. We can adopt a Daily Mail style of xenophobic ranting, but a more constructive path to go down might be reviewing the constitution.

...and if you're trying to attach the right-wing, xenophobic label onto myself, and everyone else who voted that Hyndurn B.C. shouldn't be wasting time on issues on the Indian sub-continent, you're way off the mark, and are denser than you at first appear.