Should kids go to jail?

[panther]

Brooke kinsella, the brother of ben who was stabbed has said the right thing about these kids...
"If these young boys want to pick up a weapon and fight then we let them go over to national service and fight for a good cause."
See how tough they are then!
totally agree with that!

[Margaret Pilkington]

While committing these feral youths to the forces might seem a good idea......I'm not so sure.......you need men who are self disciplined for good fighting forces......these youths have no self discipline....so would need a lot of licking into shape......the army of the 50's would probably do them a favour, but I'm not sure that the army of today is up to the job........and another thing, Why should the Army instructors have to police feral youths with hard attitudes?

[Nori Brick]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Nori, I was the one who quoted about a boot camp...and i'm still not sure if you are for the idea or not. Maybe I'm thick !

I don't think anyone thick margaret, I agree with milartry run boot camps like in america, not the hollday camps that they gettin put in. like I said if they should brink back national service. I live just round the corner from the army cadets not even that dose any good. I say boot camp not hollday camps and national service for sixteen and over

[Margaret Pilkington]

Nori....that is the kind of thing I was talking about.......the kind of camps where they are woken at 6am and kept on the go until it is time to go to bed. Where there is discipline, and if they do not comply then they face the consequences.......where they can earn privileges. Where boundaries are set and more importantly kept.

No PSP machines to play on, no Wii, no Xbox, no TV either.....maybe a movie once a week...the rest of the time should be given to hard physical work or exercise.

[cashman]

trouble with that margaret is yer talking sense, that will never do fer these numpties that dicate punishments.

[Margaret Pilkington]

And isn't that a real travesty? We could make a difference to how these young people view life and integrate into society......but we need to take radical action.....not just tinker around the edges of the youth justice system.

[Nori Brick]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

And isn't that a real travesty? We could make a difference to how these young people view life and integrate into society......but we need to take radical action.....not just tinker around the edges of the youth justice system.

I agree fully there margaret. the yough justice sistem is a mess becouse they don't know their backsides from their elbows. the mane reson why there is some much yough crime is becouse the kids are board and there arn't meny places for them to go and be kids. back in the 80s when i was growing up there was yough clubs more or les every where. why build another suppermarket? when what we need is more yough clubs

[jambutty]

As an ex-serviceman I can vouch for the effectiveness of military service at a young age, although in my case I volunteered to join the Royal Navy at the age of 16 years, 10 months and 3 weeks and also met some National Servicemen.

Although I wasn’t an out of control tearaway as a teenager, like most kids I had my moments. Bear in mind that the navy’s discipline was less rigorous than the army or RAF, nonetheless it was far from easy. Transgressions were instantly punished with things like once around the parade ground (about half a mile) with a Lee Enfield .303 rifle either at the slope, where, as you ran it bounced up and down on your collar bone or held aloft at arms length. Most people only ever sampled that once and I can’t think of anyone who got more than two doses.

Transgressions out of normal working hours were met with the order to don your gas mask and run at the double over a bank of shelters, there and back. You cannot breath fast wearing a gas mask. That was one cruel punishment and once was enough.

Our day started at 0630 with a full cooked breakfast between 0700 and 0730. Beds had to be stripped and the blankets and sheets folded in a particular way and stacked at the head of the bed in a particular fashion before going to breakfast. At 0745 we fell in for mess/galley/dining hall/offices/roadways cleaning until 0815.

0830 saw us all on the parade ground to either march off for technical instructions or more square bashing.

Stand easy (tea break to civilians) was a mere ten minutes at 1030. Dinner (sailors didn’t have lunch. That was for officers only) was between 1200 and 1300. On parade at 1315 for more technical instructions or square bashing until 1600. Tea of a slice of bread and jam and a cake was at 1615 and supper (which was dinner without a pudding) followed at 1830.

However for one day in four, work didn’t finish at 1600. There was loads of extra work, some of which meant keeping security watches right through the night until 0800.

Most of the spare evening time was used in washing clothes by hand (not even a washboard), ironing and swotting up on the day’s lessons.

There was tea available at 2030 for those who had enough energy to go and get it from the mess hall. OOW (Officer of the Watch) rounds at 2100 to check that the mess was not a mess, which meant that the mess had to be swept and floor polished before he came.

Lights out was at 2230 and when they said lights out they meant lights out.

Saturdays and Sunday were more relaxed except for those who were duty watch for that weekend, which was one weekend in four and one weekend in four as standby.

Of course there were also regular kit musters where your kit had to rolled up in a certain way to show your name on the item and laid out per regulations. Not forgetting Captains rounds where the mess got a thorough clean right through.

After just 6 weeks I became a model citizen or rather sailor and so did everyone else. We learned respect for authority and most importantly for each other.

The namby pamby “Human Rights” people would have had a field day back in ’54 and I doubt if that sort of regime could be forced onto today’s miscreants.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes, Jambutty....that would keep the youths out of mischief......there was enough physical stuff in that day to make sure they were well and truly tired.

Nori, as for being bored, I don't subscribe to that argument at all......there are plenty of things to do if they want to put their minds to it.....there are organisations that can be joined(ok, so the young folk of today may not find it 'cool' to join the boys Brigade, ST John's, Scouts Guides, sea Cadets) sports facilities to be enjoyed...and as for money to do these things...well, they seem to be able to find the dosh for smokes/dope and alcopops/lager/cider etc...they can use the money for something else instead.

No the real problem is that they think they can get away with feral behaviour because society gives them so many mixed messages - they can have what they like, there are no consequences for any of their actions....and worst of all there are no boundaries.
They need to be taught respect for adults.....and yes, I do know that respect is a two way street.......but I respect the youngsters who show me respect......I have lived longer, experienced more of life and it's hardships and pitfalls.......I don't need to hear bad language...it isn't big, grown up, or clever.

[polly]

The real problem is that these youths are left to develop0 as they do something serious (and then not much).
I have said it before and I will say it again if we caught these kids early in life (and it could be done if we trusted our nursery teachers and reception staff more) and removed them from their inadequate parents we could stop the problem before it developed, save the state a lot of money and some poor soul a lot of heartbreak

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by polly

The real problem is that these youths are left to develop0 as they do something serious (and then not much).
I have said it before and I will say it again if we caught these kids early in life (and it could be done if we trusted our nursery teachers and reception staff more) and removed them from their inadequate parents we could stop the problem before it developed, save the state a lot of money and some poor soul a lot of heartbreak

We stopped doing that in the early seventies polly and look where it has got use, up the creek without a paddle, and if anybody wants to put it right you have to climb over all the dogooders before you get anywhere near the problem, that is if you're allowed to get near it at all. The new fangled ways have failed, the softly softly approach does not work, so its time to go back to the old days where a copper clouted you round the ear, and the teached gave you the cane, and you got a good hidding if you spoke back to your parrents. There were no stabbings or shootings when we were young, so the way we were raised must have been right, and if it wasn't broke why the hell did somebody want to fix it in the first place

[Loz]

Regardless of age youths today should be punished for their crimes,not holiday camps like they are now but proper disciplined places where hopefully they will learn respect and change their ways before it's too late.
If we leave them to carry on willy nilly then they are always going to be like that and will reoffend later in life.
A lot of it is the parents,like many on here i was brought up to know right from wrong and to respect others,half of the kids nowadays don't stand a chance unfortunately.

[derekgas]

There have always been parents who didnt give too hoots where thier kids are, I grew up with some, but there were enough detterents around to still keep many wayward kids in line, the parents also had a bit of respect for the police, I disagree that it is all down to the parents, how can it be when parents have less control than they did in years gone by, give some control back to parents, teachers, the police and as an afterthought, the prisons. Borstal, birch, tough prisons, hanging! all sadly missed in my opinion.

[Margaret Pilkington]

You are right Derek, the parents have been emasculated over the last few years...children seem to have more 'rights' than adults...and this cannot be good for discipline.

[AccyAlec]

Yes they should go to jail.. and i dont mean these youth hostels... if they want to do a crime like stabbing someone then they should be locked up with the adults and they deserve everything that happens in their to them... IMO