Should we 'legalise illegal drugs'? - Poll.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by annesingleton

Thank you for the information which makes sense. Alcohol definitely kills more people than illegal drugs. But is that an argument for legalising illegal drugs?

That seems to be the main argument.

There are already, what can be dangerous, legal substances.

So let's have more.

Two wrongs never did make that right.

[Restless]

No,

Originally Posted by annesingleton

Thank you for the information which makes sense. Alcohol definitely kills more people than illegal drugs. But is that an argument for legalising illegal drugs?

[Less]

Originally Posted by Restless

Over the years that I have been reading posts on accyweb I come to respect Maraget's opinions. You however... You was on my case the very first minute I posted to the forum years ago, when you didn't know anything about me. This is what sucks about accringtonweb... that we can't have a discussion with personal attacks left, right and centre. I remember all to well how you was on the offensive with me for no good reason and it wasn't even a sensitive subject.

If you had read anything I posted you would know that I no longer do drugs and I haven't for 10 years

Perhaps I was on your case then for the same reason I'll be on your case now, you talk crap, the difference between you and I is, you remember me being on your case, No doubt whenever it was, your thinking was as bad then as it is now.
It may be as you say this is what sucks about AccringtonWeb but only for childish folk like you.

[Restless]

Its laughable that you of all people would call me childish.

What is really disconcerting to me about you is I actually enjoyed reading your blog back around the year I joined mostly this post

Sometimes the Devil takes on many forms - Accrington Web

Originally Posted by Less

Perhaps I was on your case then for the same reason I'll be on your case now, you talk crap, the difference between you and I is, you remember me being on your case, No doubt whenever it was, your thinking was as bad then as it is now.
It may be as you say this is what sucks about AccringtonWeb but only for childish folk like you.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Restless

Its laughable that you of all people would call me childish.

So, you have started posting again, for how long?
You have tried and failed in your futile attack on me in this thread, you have had to apologise for your attitude in the Clayton thread, how long before you notice it is you that is wrong not everyone else?

[jaysay]

If you post on this site you have to be prepared to stick your head above the parapet and get shot at, if your not, Accyweb ain't the place of you Restless

[Restless]

Less. I never attacked I defended myself against your attack.

You went off at me in a comment towards Margaret rather than sharing an opinion against whatever I said it was just a direct attack. There was no real call for it. All I have done is openly and honestly shared my experience and opinions on what is a sensitive subject. You said I knew nothing about life and quoted me as being a drug user.

It would be fair enough if I am wrong in what I am saying and you have some valid point for me to take into consideration. I am all for learning

I fail to see how I have been childish. If anything your comment was childish.

Those links I posted, the information was requested, didn't you yourself ask for proof of the alcohol related deaths?

The amount of alcohol related deaths that Kestrel mentioned is accurate, and all I did was provide evidence(more childishness I presume?). Later Anne also asked where the evidence comes from. So I tried to find more direct government documents on them because sites advocating drug use or the legalizing of them are dubious and people may not trust the source of information. But government documents they can be found scattered around the internet, the information is out there.

KestrelX point on mass media misinformation isn't accurate. If anything it is a purposeful omission of information. All the taxing of Alcohol and Tobacco.....

Did you even read any of the links? They are not nonsense they are from .gov sites.

This isn't intended as a method of changing peoples views about illegal drugs.

Quoting the Clayton thread is almost irrelevant. If I would of quoted cashman in that thread then the joke may have come across. I get it, some people don't get my sense of humour and it was misplaced so I apologised. Do I owe an apology here? Because they way I see it, you are yet again firing off at a user that that is not a regular here.

Just gets me when intelligent people like yourself(so it would seem) go off at people on forums(hypocritical of me saying this I know) It just seems like you fire off at people. Its not just me saying this. Over the years I have seen other users saying it too.

Jaysay-- You are right, as it seems you almost always are.

I have asked for my account to be removed.... Where Jaysays point is accurate. I do not wish to be named as "knowing nothing" "talking crap" "childish" or whatever things people say just because I am of a different opinions, ideas and ideals from others every time a sensitive subject is discussed.

It was just like this when it come down to my agnostic views on religion. I have been told several times that 'I am going to hell'....

...When deep down I am a person who prides himself on being Honest, Moralistic(though sometimes I don't show it like in the Clayton thread)Kind, and try to be a good person in general.

Perhaps Less I have taken you the wrong way in the past, but seems to me you are always on the offensive.

best,
Rob

PS: after the countless tirade of posts from the user called 'life' me popping up and presenting links to what appears to be outrageous facts-- you may think of me as another 'life'. upon my reflection of this disagreement I thought of this. I assure you I am not a maniac like that dude

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by Less

Don't be silly woman!

Haven't you had enough of kestrelx's weird and wonderful world of ridiculous links?

Get your head tested mate - you obviously have lost all reason!

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by Restless

Well I missed the poll but It would be 25/7 if I had voted.

Though I am of the opinion that cannabis should be legalized the poll basically says all illegal drugs.

Government could tax the hell out of cannabis and they would make millions. Who knows it may even help the economy

Thing is Restless if the price of cannabis, if it was legalised, was too high with tax it may defeat the object?

Also I posted a new thread/poll asking if Cannabis should be legalised and it was removed - when asking the Mods why, I was told there were to many threads active relating to drugs but if I tried again when they died down it would be allowed! So perhaps you could start it, I'll take part!

[Restless]

Its just something my favourite comedian Bill Hicks said ''If they legalized cannabis it would end the deficit"

Perhaps Im wrong or right. Anne made a good point with the bootleg trade which I didn't take into consideration.

Least if it was legalized people wouldn't have to go to dealers to get it(unless they wanted to of course) and the dangerous resin stuff would be more out of reach than ever.

People are smoking all kinds of dangerous crap when they are smoking cannabis resin-- Ketamine, Plastic hardening chemicals and other countless terrible things. IMO there is not enough awareness about the dangers of cannabis resin. Instead they seem to focus on the plant form and genetically modified seeds or whatever. Cannabis resin contains about 10% cannabis and the rest is crap. Unfortunately I learned this information way to late or I would never have smoked it.

I have changed my mind in my opinion to cannabis being legalized to it being decriminalised. One should be able to grow a plant or two for personal use without the worry of being jailed or marked with a criminal record. If its not a commonly shared view so be it. That is just my take on it.

As for a starting another drugs thread. I don't think so KestrelX. Even if I do stick around here I doubt I will comment in any sensitive subjects again.

Originally Posted by kestrelx

Thing is Restless if the price of cannabis, if it was legalised, was too high with tax it may defeat the object?

Also I posted a new thread/poll asking if Cannabis should be legalised and it was removed - when asking the Mods why, I was told there were to many threads active relating to drugs but if I tried again when they died down it would be allowed! So perhaps you could start it, I'll take part!

[Eric]

Originally Posted by kestrelx

Get your head tested mate - you obviously have lost all reason!

If we put aside all the ad hominem garbage for a while, and concentrate on the question, we should be able to see that there are two sides to the argument ... at least two. There are the arguments that come from countries which consume the products ... the UK is a prime example, as is Canada ... and those from countries which produce them. And many of the problems come from the consuming countries, particularly the US and its hangers on in the developed world, who are putting pressure on producing countries such as Mexico and Columbia to adopt their model .... which, essentially, is waging a "war" on drugs. Not a metaphorical war, but a literal one involving armies and police forces, and significant casualties among the general public. If one takes the time to look at what is happening in Mexico, for example, one can see that this "war" is being lost. And the costs of its failure are being borne by the producing countries; and the beneficiaries are the drug producing and marketing cartels. One way of reducing the crimes associated with drugs is to legalize them.

Organized crime in the US came about because of the 18th. Ammendment; and after prohibition it didn't go away. It just moved into gambling, prostitution, drugs, and general rackateering. Organized crime thrives on the illegal nature of things that the general public wants to do, and will continue doing despite the law.

Perhaps consuming countries should take more responsibility for their drug problems ... legalize the damn stuff and control its use, something that can be done more effectively if the problem is out in the open. Right now the blame and the burden is being placed on the producing countries, particularly the poor and defenceless in those countries. One thing that must be done is to get away from this bs about "wars on drugs".

By the way ... I seem to have a drug problem. Time to make a phone call

[Restless]

thanks for your insight Eric. Great post

Originally Posted by Eric

If we put aside all the ad hominem garbage for a while, and concentrate on the question, we should be able to see that there are two sides to the argument ... at least two. There are the arguments that come from countries which consume the products ... the UK is a prime example, as is Canada ... and those from countries which produce them. And many of the problems come from the consuming countries, particularly the US and its hangers on in the developed world, who are putting pressure on producing countries such as Mexico and Columbia to adopt their model .... which, essentially, is waging a "war" on drugs. Not a metaphorical war, but a literal one involving armies and police forces, and significant casualties among the general public. If one takes the time to look at what is happening in Mexico, for example, one can see that this "war" is being lost. And the costs of its failure are being borne by the producing countries; and the beneficiaries are the drug producing and marketing cartels. One way of reducing the crimes associated with drugs is to legalize them.

Organized crime in the US came about because of the 18th. Ammendment; and after prohibition it didn't go away. It just moved into gambling, prostitution, drugs, and general rackateering. Organized crime thrives on the illegal nature of things that the general public wants to do, and will continue doing despite the law.

Perhaps consuming countries should take more responsibility for their drug problems ... legalize the damn stuff and control its use, something that can be done more effectively if the problem is out in the open. Right now the blame and the burden is being placed on the producing countries, particularly the poor and defenceless in those countries. One thing that must be done is to get away from this bs about "wars on drugs".

By the way ... I seem to have a drug problem. Time to make a phone call

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Restless

thanks for your insight Eric. Great post

Totally agree. Wise words Eric, as usual.

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by Eric

If we put aside all the ad hominem garbage for a while, and concentrate on the question, we should be able to see that there are two sides to the argument ... at least two. There are the arguments that come from countries which consume the products ... the UK is a prime example, as is Canada ... and those from countries which produce them. And many of the problems come from the consuming countries, particularly the US and its hangers on in the developed world, who are putting pressure on producing countries such as Mexico and Columbia to adopt their model .... which, essentially, is waging a "war" on drugs. Not a metaphorical war, but a literal one involving armies and police forces, and significant casualties among the general public. If one takes the time to look at what is happening in Mexico, for example, one can see that this "war" is being lost. And the costs of its failure are being borne by the producing countries; and the beneficiaries are the drug producing and marketing cartels. One way of reducing the crimes associated with drugs is to legalize them.

Organized crime in the US came about because of the 18th. Ammendment; and after prohibition it didn't go away. It just moved into gambling, prostitution, drugs, and general rackateering. Organized crime thrives on the illegal nature of things that the general public wants to do, and will continue doing despite the law.

Perhaps consuming countries should take more responsibility for their drug problems ... legalize the damn stuff and control its use, something that can be done more effectively if the problem is out in the open. Right now the blame and the burden is being placed on the producing countries, particularly the poor and defenceless in those countries. One thing that must be done is to get away from this bs about "wars on drugs".

By the way ... I seem to have a drug problem. Time to make a phone call

Former President George W Bush has cocaine convictions - but his father pulled strings to have the records wiped from his record!

Fact is Eric - prohibition in the USA is well documented for allowing Organised Crime to get a foot hold in America by making vast profits from selling Illegal Booze!

Good post!

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by Restless

Least if it was legalized people wouldn't have to go to dealers to get it(unless they wanted to of course) and the dangerous resin stuff would be more out of reach than ever.

People are smoking all kinds of dangerous crap when they are smoking cannabis resin-- Ketamine, Plastic hardening chemicals and other countless terrible things. IMO there is not enough awareness about the dangers of cannabis resin. Instead they seem to focus on the plant form and genetically modified seeds or whatever. Cannabis resin contains about 10% cannabis and the rest is crap. Unfortunately I learned this information way to late or I would never have smoked it.

I have changed my mind in my opinion to cannabis being legalized to it being decriminalised. One should be able to grow a plant or two for personal use without the worry of being jailed or marked with a criminal record. If its not a commonly shared view so be it. That is just my take on it.

As for a starting another drugs thread. I don't think so KestrelX. Even if I do stick around here I doubt I will comment in any sensitive subjects again.

A few people have made these points before. That making some drugs illegal means that more people are going to be exposed to impure or fake drugs from unscrupulous dealers! Thus there will be more illness and more deaths because of this! I havn't tried to get any, but from reports I've read most Ecstasy sold these days is not the real thing but cut with all sorts of impurities and substances that are not what the buyer thinks or wants!

I concur with you about not being willing to comment on sensitive subjects - some folk here like throwing things back in your face!