Should we pull out of Europe?

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Yep, couldn't understand why I missed this back in the depths of time. Predictably enough, a similar voting pattern to the one you started more recently.

What a pity that politicians on both sides seem determined to ignore the wishes of the British people.

I'm afraid that whatever side of the fence you are on it has to be said that the time for referendum is long overdue and with each passing day it becomes harder to justify not having one. We pay far more in per year than we get back out of it and for myself, although I have heard some fairly convincing arguments for remaining within the EU, I would happily withdraw.

Opinions from all politicians are divided and quite openly between members within each party. I must say that I prefer this to a bunch of sheep rigidly adhering to the party line over their own views.

With the advent of the new 100,000 signature petition which allows burning issues to be considered for discussion within parliament, I will be interested to see how the House of Commons deals with it. On the one hand, if they ignore it then there will be uproar but on the other if they debate it and find that actually it is better that we stay in the EU then I'm not sure that will go down terribly well with the majority either.

Good luck everyone, rather you than me.

[Wynonie Harris]

There may be divides on both sides, but it seems to me that the majority in both the Tory and Labour party are for staying in. Possibly some of them are viewing their future prospects. After all if an absolutely useless bag of wind like Kinnock can get a cushy job on the Euro gravy train, why not them?

The prospect of the British people actually having their say on whether we stay in or pull out terrifies them because they know the answer they'll get and that's why Brown and now Cameron have gone through all sorts of verbal contortions to wriggle out of it. Don't expect a referendum anytime soon!

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

There may be divides on both sides, but it seems to me that the majority in both the Tory and Labour party are for staying in. Possibly some of them are viewing their future prospects. After all if an absolutely useless bag of wind like Kinnock can get a cushy job on the Euro gravy train, why not them?

The prospect of the British people actually having their say on whether we stay in or pull out terrifies them because they know the answer they'll get and that's why Brown and now Cameron have gone through all sorts of verbal contortions to wriggle out of it. Don't expect a referendum anytime soon!

Well Wyn I am fast coming round to your way of thinking that we should get the hell out of this shambles they call the European Union, especially when I read this morning we could be saddled with a bill of £50 billion from the bail out of Grease and the like, enough's enough

[gynn]

It would be interesting to get an independent assessment of EXACTLY how much it would cost us to pull out of the EU. A bottom line figure, not swayed by political dogma.

Until we have that we can't possibly have a referendum, because people would be voting on the wrong premise ie politics rather than economics.

I suspect we'd get a shock if we saw the cost of getting out of all the commitments we've entered into. All the cosy quid pro quo arrangements with different countries on health care, residency, etc etc.

By all means leave the EU and send all those johnny foreigners back from whence they came.......

.....and prepare the reception camps for all the ex pat Brits who will flood back into the country when they get expelled from where they've settled!

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

There may be divides on both sides, but it seems to me that the majority in both the Tory and Labour party are for staying in. Possibly some of them are viewing their future prospects. After all if an absolutely useless bag of wind like Kinnock can get a cushy job on the Euro gravy train, why not them?

The prospect of the British people actually having their say on whether we stay in or pull out terrifies them because they know the answer they'll get and that's why Brown and now Cameron have gone through all sorts of verbal contortions to wriggle out of it. Don't expect a referendum anytime soon!

But they're all so clever, and know better than us what's good for the plebs.

It's all very complicated, and that's why we can't understand the amazing range of benefits we get from continued E.U. membership.

It's like politicans' expenses.

They fought tooth and nail to prevent their expenses from being published.

We were just too stupid to understand that their only concern was purely a security issue.

[walkinman221]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Oh no not the bloody X-Factor

You love it dont lie

[Boeing Guy]

We could do worse than take Norway as a example, yes they have high taxes so Mancie and c'mon should be happy!!! But they seem to do okay without the EU and have a good standard of living.
From a personal view one advantage of the EU is the euro, I spend time in almost all the Euro zone countries, it's easier to carry in my wallet, still there's nothing better than a bit of Khazakstan Tenge to get them all worked up at Tesco!!

On a serious note, we could cut legal immigration from other EU members, this would help most industry here, why we have never followed the French in that I don't know, foe example to join Air France you have to have a French Passport and be fluent in French, to join British Airways you just need the right to work in the EU.
More concerning, being a ex expat living in Morocco for 3 years, the amount of Moroccan cars I saw with Euro flag stickers on was unreal, they all were looking forward to the day they joined the EU o thru could live in France and the UK.

We should leave, or risk being dragged down with the Euro.

[mobertol]

A difficult one this for me as i have been living in Italy for the last 25 years and have missed out on the build up of resentment in the UK against the EU.
Back in the 70's I had the good fortune to go on holiday camping in France, you wouldn't believe how "behind" it was in some ways WRT the UK back then especially in the South. I think the EU has been very important for the development of Southern European countries like France, Spain, Italy etc. Equally it is now promoting the development of it's newer member states -but at what price?
The Euro seemed like a good idea and is certainly handy for those who travel. In Italy when it was introduced 1 Euro=1,936.27 Lira but in the shops overnight what used to cost 1000Lira suddenly cost 1 Euro and no-one complained because 1:1 was easier to understand! Europe therefore became more expensive for Brits on holiday and viceversa...
I personally preferred Europe when each country had more af a national identity and it's own currency. That's what made each country different, interesting and "foreign", nowadays we're all mixed up together and there are McD's and kebab houses wherever you go...
I'm no economist, but surely if countries managed to trade with each other before the EU then surely they could continue to do so without it. Would you be banned if you weren't in the team anymore? As many have pointed out on this thread already there seem to be too many vested Political/Economic interests tied up in the maintenance of the bureaucracy.
It's a truly tangled web - can we be sure we aren't being deceived by our politicians in pursuit of their own interests?

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by mobertol

I think the EU has been very important for the development of Southern European countries like France, Spain, Italy etc. Equally it is now promoting the development of it's newer member states -but at what price?

Cheers, Mobertol, you've just summed up the EU to a T!

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I'm afraid that whatever side of the fence you are on it has to be said that the time for referendum is long overdue and with each passing day it becomes harder to justify not having one.

You should think about going in to politics.

You'd get at least one vote.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by garinda

You should think about going in to politics.

You'd get at least one vote.

I'll consider it.

Whilst treading on toes to do the right thing is amusing I might be inclined to make it a vice.

Oops.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I'll consider it.

Whilst treading on toes to do the right thing is amusing I might be inclined to make it a vice.

Oops.

Looks like you've just lost that 1 vote mate

[Eric]

There's a question that has been bothering me .... apart from who put the bomp in the bop she bop? .... Why are the major political parties so keen on staying in the EU? I'm tempted to think that it is because they consider membership in the EU is in the best interests of Great Britain. There seems to be nothing in it for them ... as in they are going to make money out of it ... (unlike the Liam Fox thing .... or the fact that the top listed 100 British companies have established numerous subsiduaries in places like the Cayman Islands in order to avoid British taxes. These are the same companies that the Tory govt. wants to reward with tax breaks oops, I wandered.)

Is it that they have limited their thinking to the purely economic aspects? And ignored the other arguments for opting out? What seems weird is that they seem to want to follow a path that will lead to the diminishing of their own power.

[Margaret Pilkington]

They don't want to come out because whoever takes that decision will have one hell of a job to untangle all the legislation that the EU have bound us all up in.

Yes, they are diminshing their own powers...making less owrk for themselves...but getting paid a princely amount for the reduced workload....and we daft burgers are paying them and the EU!