Smokers unite before it is too late. - Page 3

lindsay ormerod · 21-06-2006, 18:54

Oddly enough I find myself actually agreeing with Shakermaker on something! Smoking is an evil addiction that costs an absolute fortune ;you have nothing to show for your expenditure except a bl**dy awful cough,dying lungs and a large hole in your pocket! My father has smoked for over 40 years and has tried and failed to give up many times;yet his own dad died of lung cancer when my dad was 14.
He knows how all 3 of his non smoking kids feel about his smoking and has had somewhat restricted access to his grandchildren because of his smoking.
It's a disgusting habit;I am glad it is banned in the workplace,bars and restaurants soon to follow suite.I agree with the Big G that the only way to stop this evil would be a tobacco ban but that would be nigh on impossible to enforce.
Smokers should try watching the Gunther Van Hagens autopsy tv series and see for real what they are doing to themselves and those around them!

DeShark · 21-06-2006, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

You are all trying to make tobacco a scapegoat when you know full well that the additional culprit is vehicle exhaust fumes but you won’t admit it. By doing so you would have to shoulder some of the responsibility and that would never do. Would it???

I agree. Exhaust fumes DO cause a heck of a lot of pollution. I can't stand cars. Yes, I'll use one, but I'd much prefer to ride a motorbike/scooter. And I'm no hypocrite to say that cars are more acceptable. I might enjoy building bonfires of petrol in my back yard cause the smoke smells nice to me, but there's no reason for it whatsoever. I'd have paid huge amounts of tax on said petrol but money is not a justification for the harm I would be doing. Conversely, I could load that petrol into a motorbike and make a good 200 miles to the gallon. Which is the least responsible? A wreckless waste of money, a massive detriment to the state of the environment and greatly annoying my neighbour or using it for an important cause? You won't be able to ban cars. You could, like I do, kick up a fuss in order to get people to think about what sort of car to buy. I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't smoke. Frankly, I wouldn't like to order you to do or not do anything. But when it begins to have an impact on me, I feel entitled, if not obliged to defend my position.

West Ender · 21-06-2006, 19:33

When statistics are being bandied around I am always reminded of one fact. Merseyside and its nearby area has, apparently, the highest rate of lung cancer in Britain. Though the anti-tobacco lobby would, no doubt, argue that this must mean the area has the biggest concentration of smokers, that hypothesis is ridiculous. What the area does have is a large concentration of chemical industries, particularly in the Widnes/Runcorn area, and petro-chemical and neuclear plants on the Wirral.

While I, as an ex-smoker, totally agree with non-smoking enclosed environments I find the premise of outdoor tobacco smoke being responsible for air pollution, frankly, ludicrous. Take a drive through Widnes, on a still day, with your car window open, drive down to the dock area in Runcorn or have a ride out to Stanlow refinery. Take a deep lungful of the air the people are breathing daily and, when you stop coughing, just think a little harder.

katex · 21-06-2006, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindsay ormerod

Oddly enough I find myself actually agreeing with Shakermaker on something! Smoking is an evil addiction that costs an absolute fortune ;you have nothing to show for your expenditure except a bl**dy awful cough,dying lungs and a large hole in your pocket! My father has smoked for over 40 years and has tried and failed to give up many times;yet his own dad died of lung cancer when my dad was 14.
He knows how all 3 of his non smoking kids feel about his smoking and has had somewhat restricted access to his grandchildren because of his smoking.
It's a disgusting habit;I am glad it is banned in the workplace,bars and restaurants soon to follow suite.I agree with the Big G that the only way to stop this evil would be a tobacco ban but that would be nigh on impossible to enforce.
Smokers should try watching the Gunther Van Hagens autopsy tv series and see for real what they are doing to themselves and those around them!

Gosh !! so much hate

jambutty · 21-06-2006, 21:59

At least you appear to accept your part in the pollution of our air DeShark but then you go and try to mitigate it be preferring a motorbike.

What have motorbikes/scooters got to do with it? They are still internal combustion engine driven that pollutes the atmosphere. It doesn’t matter whether you drive a huge gas-guzzling leviathan or a 50 cc Moped you still pollute the air that others, and yourself, breathe. But that’s OK because you also breathe in the gungy air. Talking that argument as a yardstick then it is also OK if I smoke in public because I also breathe in my own smoke.

I wasn’t going to bring the bonfire into the debate but seeing as you have done so, why do I have to suffer the smoke and fumes because a neighbour enjoys his barbeque or enjoys a bonfire in his garden yet he objects to me smoking in his vicinity? I enjoy my fag so if I’m outside anyone nearby will just have to lump it.

A few days either side of Bonfire Night the air is thick with choking, acrid smoke round here. Smoke from that old settee with its foam upholstery. The foam that gives off poisonous fumes that kill before the fire does in a house fire. That’s OK because people are enjoying themselves. The same people who pontificate about passive smoking.

It all boils down to “do as I say not as I do” and for a more classic example of hypocrisy it will be difficult to find.

If you feel that you entitled to defend your position when something impacts on you then why shouldn’t I do the same. Surely you don’t have special human rights do you?

No hate katex, just exasperation at the way society as a whole has degenerated into a me, me, me, me, me society. We used to tolerate each other’s foibles. Not any more! The knives come out at the drop of a hat.

shakermaker · 21-06-2006, 22:12

Jambutty, of course everyone knows that cigarette smoke is not the singular cause for the hole in the o-zone layer, that it is melting all the polar ice-caps & that your pack of Marlboro red is going to raise the temperature of the earth

What baffles me is the blasé attitude to the relation between smoking and the personal health of a smoker?
We've all seen the adverts with the man gasping for air on a life support machine & the one with the err..failure to rise to the occasion; so as a genuine question; why put yourself through the long-term damage for a quick nicotine fix?

garinda · 21-06-2006, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

No hate katex, just exasperation at the way society as a whole has degenerated into a me, me, me, me, me society. We used to tolerate each other’s foibles. Not any more! The knives come out at the drop of a hat.

The same accusation could be levelled at you for your views on non-smokers or drivers of cars.

I say this as a smoker, and someone who admits it can be a very anti-social habit sometimes.

junetta · 21-06-2006, 23:27

This is an argument which will never be resolved. Back in the sixties the Armed Forces provided tobacco allowances for all personnel as I guess Jambutty knows. It was even approved of to have a quick ciggie whilst in your hospital bed in those days. It wasn't thought to be harmful then.

I have my own rules. I don't smoke where there are children, especially in enclosed spaces, even though their parents might be. Nor where people are eating. In my own home I do what I like.

As for having a cigarette at a bus stop, well, why not, you can't have one on the bus and you probably can't have one when you get to where you are going.

Twenty years ago, or maybe not even that long, it was possible to make a choice in England but now bullies rule.

Enjoy your ciggie Jambutty, you have the right x

cashman · 22-06-2006, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

; so as a genuine question; why put yourself through the long-term damage for a quick nicotine fix?

probably because its an ADDICTION something which seems to be beyond you.

Madhatter · 22-06-2006, 02:00

you look 90 on that pic

I tend to agree with cypher on this one, but you should want to give up, its a dirty filthy smelly habbit. would you pour tar in a glass and drink it? would you rub ashes on your clothes. But thats what your doing, and not only to yourselves, to your kids.

I think all tax on ciggarettes should be dropped, they should ban it in public places, enclosed places not open bus stops ,although smoking rooms should be allowed, esp in pubs, and when you get smoking related illness's you should be refused treatment. If you wanna kill yourselves go ahead and do it, but not round us, and not with any loss off us. The tax is as good as blood money in opinion.

Madhatter · 22-06-2006, 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Ender

When statistics are being bandied around I am always reminded of one fact. Merseyside and its nearby area has, apparently, the highest rate of lung cancer in Britain. Though the anti-tobacco lobby would, no doubt, argue that this must mean the area has the biggest concentration of smokers, that hypothesis is ridiculous. What the area does have is a large concentration of chemical industries, particularly in the Widnes/Runcorn area, and petro-chemical and neuclear plants on the Wirral.

While I, as an ex-smoker, totally agree with non-smoking enclosed environments I find the premise of outdoor tobacco smoke being responsible for air pollution, frankly, ludicrous. Take a drive through Widnes, on a still day, with your car window open, drive down to the dock area in Runcorn or have a ride out to Stanlow refinery. Take a deep lungful of the air the people are breathing daily and, when you stop coughing, just think a little harder.

Thats not from stanlow, thats from that smelly poisonous toxic incinerator, the smell makes me sick. I've rarelly smelt anything in widnes, and only if I'm by the chemical plant in runcorn.

Madhatter · 22-06-2006, 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

Jambutty, of course everyone knows that cigarette smoke is not the singular cause for the hole in the o-zone layer, that it is melting all the polar ice-caps & that your pack of Marlboro red is going to raise the temperature of the earth

What baffles me is the blasé attitude to the relation between smoking and the personal health of a smoker?
We've all seen the adverts with the man gasping for air on a life support machine & the one with the err..failure to rise to the occasion; so as a genuine question; why put yourself through the long-term damage for a quick nicotine fix?

I think jambutty might be trying to say that all that's due to the car fumes and not the smoke

who_eat_all_the_pies · 22-06-2006, 02:23

smoking is a choice if a person wants to smoke they can but I as a smoker do agree that it should be banned completely how can the goverment justify selling these health hazzards to people ? It puzzles me how they can get away with it, I say make them illegal like drugs that way ppl who want to smoke badly enough can get imports from the black market like drugs then they will only be smoking in their own home and not polluting everyone else with the fumes

pendy · 22-06-2006, 09:30

It is only a matter of time before the NHS refuses treatment to smokers. If smoking is banned in so many places, obviously people will smoke fewer cigarettes. If people smoke fewer cigarettes, the tax take goes down. If the tax take goes down, how do we fund the NHS? It's already running over budget. So, how do we cut down? Simple, don't treat smokers.

As for watching someone die of cancer, I personally know a thoracic surgeon who smokes. Irrational? Possibly, but it is his choice. My nephew died at 46 of a form of lung cancer which is extremely virulent and is not caused by smoking (he never smoked in his life).

There have been quite a number of studies of passive smoking. Funnily enough, only the one that said it was dangerous is ever quoted. I know media studies students are not much into research, but perhaps an hour or two in the library might open a mind or two.

pendy · 22-06-2006, 09:35

One other thing - Shakermaker does seem rather holier than thou on this, but he/she has the advantage of knowing that smoking is deleterious to health. If you are over 45, it is very probable that at the time you started smoking, no-one said it was bad for you. In the US doctors endorsed particular brands of cigarette (Camel being one) and, as WestEnder says, patients were allowed to smoke in their hospital beds. And yes, it is an addiction. Think yourself lucky that you were warned.