So Our Glorious Leader Wishes To Ataack?

[Less]

GRAHAM JONES MP: Litter louts, your days are up! | Lancashire Telegraph

Foolishly our M.P. yet again finds an easy target to make it seem he's doing something, what an easy target, 'litter louts', yes we would all like people not to litter, so cameras are going to be employed to cut out this horrendous misdemeanour.

I actually agree litter isn't something we want, but, I reckon stopping fly tipping would stop far more than he proposes doing.

How do we stop fly tipping? well one way would be to make it easier for folk to use the tips, how much less would cost? Make it easy for people including small businesses to use the tips and so much less will be spent on clearing up after fly tippers.

Yes I understand they try to make the tips profitable for those running them, but a small loss compared with keeping some poor souls cul-de-sac clear.

The other thing I notice about his above rant, 'or cigarettes being carelessly flicked outside pubs'

It seems that really upsets him, well I'm a smoker and believe it or not it upsets me also.

However this is a consequence of short sighted Governmental rulings, they had the chance of making pubs, clubs, et al segregated, somewhere we could all use without being too much of an inconvenience to each other.
Now what do we have? Antiquated buildings trying to comply, still with the majority that use them being smokers, No ash trays thanks to smoking ban, thanks to vandalism no containers left on the wall to put a dog end.

Could I ask our M.P. not to blame the smokers for everything? Yes there are some that don't give a damn but most would use bins if they where left intact, maybe you should give us a vandal free environment before blaming us for having nowhere left to get rid of our butt?

I don't expect he will reply nor do I expect him to come up with a cure for vandalism, (far too difficult) I expect him to pretend he is doing the area good by going for easy targets rather than actually doing what he's paid for, which is looking after everyone's needs.

[cashman]

I also think this is a complete waste of money just good publicity for our M.P. there are far more useful stuff the money could be spent on, Stopping Fly tipping is a great example. litter and dog poop are not good by any means, but pale into insignificance when you look around Hyndburn at whats been dumped imho But this is simply a soft option and good publicity for you know who.

[Margaret Pilkington]

It just goes to show how very shallow and opportunistic our current MP is.

Less, you are right it is an easy target.
You are also right when you say it would be better to tackle fly tipping.
Near where my mother lived there is a back alley that would allow access to Mum's house
This back street is the site of fly tipping....with sofa's, mattresses and fridge freezers are frequently dumped.
This means that access is almost always impossible.
You contact the council, they come and remove the stuff and the following day it has been replaced by more household items.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Cashy, I think it IS publicity...but I would not call it good....well, except that no publicity is bad.
It raises his profile and that is all that can be said.

I suppose he has to justify his existence somehow.
I just wish his actions had a bit more.....mm oomph, more relevance, something that takes a bit more thought and effort.

We were walking along Market way yesterday and there was a workman lifting the small bricks.
We asked why this was being done.
'Trip hazard' was the response
The council are doing temporary repairs to that section with black tarmac....the setts will be replaced at a later date....so we are paying TWICE for a job that should be done once.
And have you seen the state of the surface of Broadway?....the thin resin surface that was sanctioned by the PB council is coming off in great lumps.
Now I know that this is not the remit of GJ....but it blooming well should be.

They are spending a ridiculous amount of money in tarting up the front of the market hall....a development that few people wanted(and looks like a stone desert) in the vain hope of bringing folk to the town.
Then round the corner is Broadway....the bum hole of Accrington.
I despair....I really do

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Cashy, I think it IS publicity...but I would not call it good....well, except that no publicity is bad.
It raises his profile and that is all that can be said.

I suppose he has to justify his existence somehow.
I just wish his actions had a bit more.....mm oomph, more relevance, something that takes a bit more thought and effort.

We were walking along Market way yesterday and there was a workman lifting the small bricks.
We asked why this was being done.
'Trip hazard' was the response
The council are doing temporary repairs to that section with black tarmac....the setts will be replaced at a later date....so we are paying TWICE for a job that should be done once.
And have you seen the state of the surface of Broadway?....the thin resin surface that was sanctioned by the PB council is coming off in great lumps.
Now I know that this is not the remit of GJ....but it blooming well should be.

They are spending a ridiculous amount of money in tarting up the front of the market hall....a development that few people wanted(and looks like a stone desert) in the vain hope of bringing folk to the town.
Then round the corner is Broadway....the bum hole of Accrington.
I despair....I really do

Not the remit? i suspect involvement may have occured had P.B. still been running the show?

[Less]

Might I suggest that before the Council starts targeting smokers outside pubs they at least put some litter bins outside of them?

I ask this because I can offer two local pubs as examples, (I won't name them I don't want the litter Police making a bee line to the second one for easy prosecutions or removing any litter bins already in place).

The first pub has a large Council supplied litter bin near it's front door, it doesn't have a problem of discarded dog ends.
The second unfortunately does not have a litter bin anywhere near their door, they have had metal boxes on the wall, they have to be replaced on a regular basis due to vandalism destroying them. Of course the destruction of this boxes is an offence but if the landlord reported this to the authorities they wouldn't do anything about it, such a minor crime and they haven't got the manpower to do anything about it. (They can Police littering though, contracted out to some company more than willing to take a cut of the easy prosecutions).

So perhaps just to get the backing of the common man, if the Council could be seen to be making it possible to smoke outside pubs by either reducing vandalism in the area (not going to happen) or supplying their own litter bins just to prove that anyone foolish enough to litter around the door has been given every chance not to commit such a serious crime, then they and we, can say the perpetrators where given every chance and it is therefore proper to target them.

[monkey hanger]

[QUOTE=Less;1216568][

How do we stop fly tipping? well one way would be to make it easier for folk to use the tips, how much less would cost? Make it easy for people including small businesses to use the tips and so much less will be spent on clearing up after fly tippers.

Yes I understand they try to make the tips profitable for those running them, but a small loss compared with keeping some poor souls cul-de-sac clear.

funny how years ago when going to the tip {do not know or care what fancy name they call it now** you just dumped you stuff. nowadays its a half day out. this here, this there,oh you cannot leave that here. guess what there,s fly tipping all round from beauty spots to back alleys. i know it aint right but can understand why it happens. far more than a few years ago.

[taddy]

[QUOTE=monkey hanger;1216597]

Originally Posted by Less

[

How do we stop fly tipping? well one way would be to make it easier for folk to use the tips, how much less would cost? Make it easy for people including small businesses to use the tips and so much less will be spent on clearing up after fly tippers.

Yes I understand they try to make the tips profitable for those running them, but a small loss compared with keeping some poor souls cul-de-sac clear.

funny how years ago when going to the tip {do not know or care what fancy name they call it now** you just dumped you stuff. nowadays its a half day out. this here, this there,oh you cannot leave that here. guess what there,s fly tipping all round from beauty spots to back alleys. i know it aint right but can understand why it happens. far more than a few years ago.

This is an easy question to answer, look no further than the so called "Travelling" folk; most of these people were kicked out of Ireland but were accepted by our politically correct nanny state years ago.

I have been approached more than once by them asking me, "do you have any rubbish that you need moving Sir? I can do it for a good price.

When I ask, do you have a waste removal licence; the tend to wander off muttering. Your's, Taddy.

[taddy]

Sorry, the tend to wander off should read they tend to wander off.

[Chris Cross]

I'm with you all the way on cracking down on fly tipping (have you seen the carpark at Mill Hill picnic site?), but you might want to get your ducks in a row regarding the cost of litter enforcement via Kingdom Environment Enforcement Services. Any outlay will be recovered from fixed penalty notices, and then some.. They are in the business of making money for local authorities, hence why they'll nab anyone for anything they can secure a fine on.

Expect them in high foot traffic spots and shopping areas with no bins. )

[Margaret Pilkington]

If councils are going to be using this firm to make money, then they should be forced to provide litter bins.
I hate litter and those who dispose of it by throwing it in the street deserve to be penalised, but if you accidentally drop something then that is different.

[Chris Cross]

Are you saying they should provide them everywhere? Or that there's not enough of them Margaret? They'll currently nab you if its accidental. What should be required is video proof of deliberate littering. Their staff have no integrity, guidelines mean nothing.

Arguably any private establishment has a duty to provide litter collection/disposal if their operations generate litter on public grounds. Supermarkets are allowing private enforcement for this reason IMO, it negates their responsibilities with no possibility of comeback from LA's.

It's annoying that local authorities have opted for the profit route of external enforcement rather then pressing existing legislation, but other LA's adopted it much earlier and made profits, any Hyndburn MP would have done the same in this cash-slashed "austerity" regardless of political allegiance. Thinking otherwise is just silly.

Austerity. A financial term for "screw the sick, poor, and working classes". Lets not forget the big money players who caused the financial crash of 2008 (and everything in this thread), they're fine. They don't fall under the above term because they hold hands with Civil Servants and the big cogs in National Government. My pitchfork points higher up than local authorities. )

[Margaret Pilkington]

I am saying that there are not enough and they are not always placed in the best situations to ensure their use.
Maybe fast food companies should sponsor some where they have their outlets.
I know that in many places companies like MacDonalds do try to ensure the locality is kept tidy.

The town centre is a plum place to cream off money, but the side streets are far more likely to have a litter problem because they are rarely monitored.
Green spaces, canal banks all suffer from the blight of litter.
What is wrong with taking your litter home and putting it in your own bin.
I would not dream of tossing a drink carton/bottle onto my floor at home....and being outside is no reason to think that it is OK to cast my own rules aside.
There needs to be more education of consequences....we ALL pay to have our environment kept tidy....but that does not mean we can just chuck a paper bag or a fag end into the gutter.
We have to take personal responsibility and not always expect someone else to clean up after us.
Our taxes could be used for more important things.

All that said, I object to councils making money out of people in this manner.
Rather than a fine, a litter dropper should have to pick litter from the streets for eight hours.(and not in the town centre)
I am sure that would be a better lesson...but it would not put money into council coffers

[Chris Cross]

I agree, but you can't punish the litter louts without paying someone to catch them in the first place, and providing more bins + emptying for lazy louts is expenditure which could be better used IMO. I live next door to a busy shop and the gutter between my car tyres is a dump for every lout leaving it. I'd be chuffed if an enforcement team camped it for a couple of days if I could be sure they'd act responsibly. Won't happen though, they'll be working high traffic areas for ease.

Still don't see why any council wouldn't use this service when they've no money, but they do need to improve systems to make sure the right people are nabbed.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Chris Cross

I agree, but you can't punish the litter louts without paying someone to catch them in the first place, and providing more bins + emptying for lazy louts is expenditure which could be better used IMO. I live next door to a busy shop and the gutter between my car tyres is a dump for every lout leaving it. I'd be chuffed if an enforcement team camped it for a couple of days if I could be sure they'd act responsibly. Won't happen though, they'll be working high traffic areas for ease.

Still don't see why any council wouldn't use this service when they've no money, but they do need to improve systems to make sure the right people are nabbed.

No chance of the right people being nabbed as we have already seen with illegal parking.