So, what happened in Barnsley

[Margaret Pilkington]

I personally know of people who vote the way their parents voted........they do not think or consider the change in the political scene that has happened over the last 30 years....they just go ahead and put their cross in the same little box that they always have.......they feel that anything less would be a betrayal of their class.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I personally know of people who vote the way their parents voted........they do not think or consider the change in the political scene that has happened over the last 30 years....they just go ahead and put their cross in the same little box that they always have.......they feel that anything less would be a betrayal of their class.

Agree quite a few still do,that i know.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I personally know of people who vote the way their parents voted........they do not think or consider the change in the political scene that has happened over the last 30 years....they just go ahead and put their cross in the same little box that they always have.......they feel that anything less would be a betrayal of their class.

Thinking about it, I suppose I know a few too.

Mainly toffs, who'd consider it a sacrilege.

I still think it's much more fluid nowadays though..

Everytime there's a survey, asking people what class they consider themselves, it always reveals a majority of people who see themselves as middle class, regardless of job, income, background etc. I think people choose what they are now, and who they vote for, regardless of background.

Although I came from a home where politics was discussed, I know how my dad voted, mainly because he nearly dragged us off to Italy to open a water ski-ing school, when Thatcher was elected, but I've not got the slightest idea who my mum votes for.

So though my parents helped shaped me politically, I don't vote because of some historical lotalty. I decide who at the time I think should win.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by cashman

Agree quite a few still do,that i know.

I agree with you and Marg, but there must be a lot of people who vote differently from their parents, and the traditional workers/Labour, bosses/Tory, voting patterns of the past.

Thatcher would never have got in if it wasn't for those who saw her politcs as a way of bettering themslves, buying their houses, aquiring shares etc.

Similarly Blair wouldn't have won the elerction in '97 if he hadn't ditched readical socialism, in order to appeal middle England.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Eric the comments made were due to responses garnered when speaking with the people I've met over there. They were more than happy to take me round & show me all the derelict housing, shut up shops & run down communities left behind in the wake of the Pit closures (under Thatcher).

The resentment lays a long way back & is passed on through the generations, this I have personally witnessed, they've no love of the Tories roundabouts, as to the UKIP & others if you look at the %'s Ukip only featured in 2010 as a defined recipient now look at their margins, Labour gained 13% & Lib-Dem/Cons lost between them 23ish% so exceeds the make up of Labours gained total. UKIP came on the screen in 2010 with 4.67% but now have 12.2% so it's safe to assume a part of their net gain was due to LD&C's poor showing.

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source...gmW8JA&cad=rja

I still don't go along with the "safe to assume" thing. But the idea that the resentment goes a long ways back ... that I can agree with. But how far back does it go? One can argue that it goes back to the "harrowing of the north" in the late 11th. century, which created the great North/South divide, a split which Mrs. Gaskell highlighted in her still quite readable novel "North and South." But this type of voting pattern is something that your present government has caused ... this is an opinion by the way. If I were Clegg, I would bail now and rally my constituency for the next General Election. This would probably follow a no-confidence vote, possibly on the budget.

[cashman]

I know how far back resentment goes wi me Eric, - The Miners Strike n will stay with me until i croak.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

One thing nobody's commented on is the improved showing of UKIP. I hope this is a sign of growing disillusionment with the lunacies of the EU. I'd really like to see UKIP garner a massive protest vote at the next election to put the frighteners on both the Tories and Labour. Don't want to see 'em in power, as their policies seem far too rightwing for me, but I'd like to see mainstream politicos jolted into standing up to the dictates of the EU, in a similar way to the French!

If the electorate demonstrates at the polls that they wish to see the debate on membership of the EU brought to the fore in parliament, then perhaps the only way to do it is to start voting for the UKIP. Surely, then, those who control the two major parties will make a point of offering a referendum on the issue, if only to gain votes.

I still think that the EU is a bad idea. If it were a trade agreement and/or a military alliance, it wouldn't be too bad ... but putting Europe into a blender, nah. Out of the resulting mess, the Germans would float to the top. They lost the wars, but look like a good bet for winning the peace.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by cashman

I know how far back resentment goes wi me Eric, - The Miners Strike n will stay with me until i croak.

See my influence goes back further than that, and my great grandad hating Churchill all his life, for sending the troops in against the striking miners in 1926.

Raving red.

Would have shot my Nan as a class traitor, if he'd have known she'd become a Tory. Despite her background. Widowed mill girl. Poor as a church mouse, or at least she was until Thatcher increased war widows' benefits, post Falklands.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by garinda

See my influence goes back further than that, and my great grandad hating Churchill all his life, for sending the troops in against the striking miners in 1926.

Raving red.

Would have shot my Nan as a class traitor, if he'd have known she'd become a Tory. Despite her background. Widowed mill girl. Poor as a church mouse, or at least she was until Thatcher increased war widows' benefits, post Falklands.

Oh i had done much reading before that episode n had n intense dislike to begin with, but after seeing first hand during that time it developed into hatred.

[DaveinGermany]

Well we'll just have to disagree on the point of "assumption" then Eric As you say it's an opinion, nothing more, nothing less. As to the resentment, again I can only speak about what I'm personally aware of through my own experiences growing up in Englands industrial North West & specifically Liverpool. I've been able to see first hand various causes & effects of political games in its relation to my region.

But as others have also mentioned, this ingrained idea of voting "because" is still quite prevalent in UK across the board it appears, again this is borne out by people I've spoken to. Yes some do go their own way but as stated quite a few are following in the footsteps of family & upbringing.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by cashman

Oh i had done much reading before that episode n had n intense dislike to begin with, but after seeing first hand during that time it developed into hatred.

Same here, as we talked about over a brew, the other week.

My best mate at art school, all through the strike, was a miner's daughter from South Yorkshire.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Well we'll just have to disagree on the point of "assumption" then Eric As you say it's an opinion, nothing more, nothing less. As to the resentment, again I can only speak about what I'm personally aware of through my own experiences growing up in Englands industrial North West & specifically Liverpool. I've been able to see first hand various causes & effects of political games in its relation to my region.

But as others have also mentioned, this ingrained idea of voting "because" is still quite prevalent in UK across the board it appears, again this is borne out by people I've spoken to. Yes some do go their own way but as stated quite a few are following in the footsteps of family & upbringing.

Derek Hatton was pure Thatcherite, through and through.

Militant Tendency was just his ladder to success, and riches beyond his wildest dreams.

Thatcher's poster child.