So who do u tip?? - Page 3

Gareth · 23-03-2008, 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by shillelagh

Whats wrong with going to asda and packing your own bags that way you know they are packed right - heavy stuff at the bottom - light stuff at the top. Eggs at the top, spuds at the bottom.

Nothing wrong with it at all. My point was I had become used to the level of service I get in the US.

polly · 23-03-2008, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

thats why seeing you asked, anyone that thinks people can just move on to other jobs is either dumb or making excuses n i dont think yer dumb. i can say that easily cos ive have had first hand experience, also i know a couple of people who have been looking for work for nearly 5 months now, also many people no matter how poorly paid would never dream of providing bad service.

Sorry you have misread me. I did not mean to imply that anyone can change jobs easily, but those on the bottom rungs of the ladder in the resaurant trade/pub trade do have an above average chance as this is where many of the unskilled job vacancies occur.
When a national minimum wage is enforced on employers, employees often change jobs rapidly as it is easy to earn the min wage from Grotty Employer 1 as from Grotty Employer 2. This results in low levels of reliability and effort. Try any suitable job consultant in Accrington and they will have a drawer full of bar vacancies therefore making it relatively easiy for dissatisfied employees to move on.

polly · 23-03-2008, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Anyone working in a service job dealing with the public deserves a tip ... go thro' a drive through for a cup of Tim Horton's finest ($1.50 for an extra large 4x4) don't take the change from a tooney ... in a restaurant, tip depends on the level of service ... always tip a cabbie esp. if he is pouring you home safely from the pub ... if it is -20c, tip the guy who fills your gas tank. It's not charity, and not tipping does not improve the level of pay service industry workers receive. People who don't tip cheap.

No, anyone who works in the service industry deserves a decent wage, anyone who thinks they should live off 'donations' is being cheap and denying other people their human rights and self respect. Tipping supports a corrupt system and aids only the fat cat employers.

cashman · 23-03-2008, 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by polly

No, anyone who works in the service industry deserves a decent wage, anyone who thinks they should live off 'donations' is being cheap and denying other people their human rights and self respect. Tipping supports a corrupt system and aids only the fat cat employers.

i agree entirely they deserve a decent wage, but that is not the reality, n not tipping em,will not make the slightest differance to that fact. everyone i think would love a perfect world, but none will live to see it.

davo69 · 23-03-2008, 16:15

when i go to any were for a meal i ask the waiting staff who gets the tips if they say manergerment then i dont tip .if they keep there own or share i will tip

polly · 23-03-2008, 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth

Welcome to communism.

The question is ABSOLUTELY is the level of service better. That is how economics works.This is how the economy that you relate to works The free market dictates where people want to spend their money, and the darwinism takes care of those that don't provide good service. And those who don't wish to be part of the service industry reward mechanism are free to go get a job as a clerical worker for the government where service is not the greatest. Not always, some people lack the necessary skills or their home commitments are such that 9-5 hours of working are not practicable. This does not mean that others should take advantage of them. There is no God given law that says the service industry should be the end of the line

Should sales people be paid commissions? There probably is a good case for the abolition of sales based bonuses it would help to stop the needles spred of comercialism and give people the chance to concentrate on needs rather than wants, thereby ensuring a fairer society.Should a company that performs well pay its workers a bonus based on the profits of the company?Different concept altogether, Im surprised you dont see it. Do people work harder knowing that harder work results in more money? Not always, this statement has long been debated and of course their work fulfills needs other than money

The last time i went to ASDA, and it was a while ago, I was taken aback that I had to pack my own bags, and they didn't help me to my car with my groceries. That costs me two or three bucks from my change if the person goes to my car with me, I don't always but many older people do. If the 16 year old that does that can do it that 10 times an hour, he makes $30 per hour, on a 4 hour shift, he can make 60 quid even with the crappy exchange rate. He works 3 days a week after school, and a full day on Saturday, and he is taking home £300 a week. He has to work hard, and probably run back to the store but is making a tidy income for a kid. As a (fairly) fit and able person why would I want someone else to move my shopping?I am not that lazy and whilst I can do it I will. When I am old or infirm then I would hope that the store would have enough sense of humanity to do it for me without wanting me to pay extra, particularly given the p0rofits of Wal-Mart aka Asda

Eric, I get your point, and Canada and the US have much in common when it comes to the tipping mentality. It just isn't prevalent in the UK, as many people, like Polly, see it as charity. And thats ok, because, I would assume, wages are higher to compensate, and the food is more expensive because its built into the price of the food, in the instance of the eating establishment. I just think its uncivilised not to tip in the US or Canada if you understand the economics of the service industry in the US or Canada, and therefore the performance-based reward of staff results in better service. It is far more uncivilised not to pay a decent price for goods and services in the first place. We have to see how cheap prices result in someone somewhere being taken advantage of. It dosnt matter if it is the banana grower in Africa or the 16 year old in Accrington if something is dirt cheap someone somewhere4 is being exploited and you can be sure it wont be the CEO in America

That being said, my point still sticks, Tipping a La USA will never work in the UK. Amen

My replies are above in bold

Eric · 23-03-2008, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by polly

No, anyone who works in the service industry deserves a decent wage, anyone who thinks they should live off 'donations' is being cheap and denying other people their human rights and self respect. Tipping supports a corrupt system and aids only the fat cat employers.

It seems as if you equate tipping with charity ... and while I agree that people in the service sector deserve a decent wage, tipping is not a "donation," nor charity, it is a gratuity. If one follows and allows your argument, it seems as if one must punish the underpaid worker by not tipping in order to sent a "message" to the employer! Don't throw a crust to the starving man; let his starvation act as a beacon to the crusaders of social justice. Point is, and this is only opinion, one can tip and work to improve the system at the same time.

polly · 23-03-2008, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

It seems as if you equate tipping with charity ... and while I agree that people in the service sector deserve a decent wage, tipping is not a "donation," nor charity, it is a gratuity. If one follows and allows your argument, it seems as if one must punish the underpaid worker by not tipping in order to sent a "message" to the employer! Don't throw a crust to the starving man; let his starvation act as a beacon to the crusaders of social justice. Point is, and this is only opinion, one can tip and work to improve the system at the same time.

the Chambers Dictionary defines charity as "the donation of goods, money etc to those in need: alms or alms giving:" Not my definition.
If we don't tip, ultimately we 'punish' not the employee but the employer as staff will soon move to other jobs offering better wages or better conditions and the service sector has a large pool of unfilled vacancies so it is not that they can not do so. Ultimately, to survive the employer would have to improve pay and conditions.
So each time you tip you stop the employee obtaining better pay and conditions therefore supporting a corrupt system.

grego · 23-03-2008, 21:41

If I've had good service I leave a tip that applies to restaurants and taxis, I do prefer it to be optional though. A few years ago in New York we were checking out of the hotel and one bellboy put our cases in a room for us, so we tipped him, then the one bringing them back wanted a tip as well and had the cheek to ask for it, we were stood right next to the room so all he really did was open the door and pick up our case, I just didn't like his cheek, next time I go to the US I'll take loads of $1 bills cause we were tipping $5+ for even the smallest service (it was worth more then too).

cashman · 24-03-2008, 01:18

its a simple equation to me, yer either a tight sod or yer not.

polly · 24-03-2008, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

its a simple equation to me, yer either a tight sod or yer not.

Real life is rarely that simple remember for every action there is a re-action

JJ_ · 24-03-2008, 13:47

I was the manager of a local bistro not to long ago and when I first started working there the tips were pooled in a jar, then I noticed some of the waitress' wernt pulling the weight, just happy to stand by and take the pot at the end of the day, well that wasnt gonna happen on my planet...so I arranged a 'meeting' and told them what I thought...

"were gonna have a 2 week trial...i see girls here that work their guts out and get really good tips while some of you just smirk and take take take at the end of the day...get out there and smile, make the customers feel welcome, talk as if you know them, and see what difference it makes"

After a lot of snidy remarks they got to it, (had to sack one or two though for pocketing) and what a remarkable change!

Eric · 24-03-2008, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by polly

the Chambers Dictionary defines charity as "the donation of goods, money etc to those in need: alms or alms giving:" Not my definition.
If we don't tip, ultimately we 'punish' not the employee but the employer as staff will soon move to other jobs offering better wages or better conditions and the service sector has a large pool of unfilled vacancies so it is not that they can not do so. Ultimately, to survive the employer would have to improve pay and conditions.
So each time you tip you stop the employee obtaining better pay and conditions therefore supporting a corrupt system.

Nice theory ... so, if I believe that it is disgraceful that food banks are needed in a country as rich as Canada, and that Govt. not local charitable donations should make sure that the poor have enough to eat, I should not donate to food banks. The govt. hearing the pleas of the starving, and the cries of the hungry kids would step in, with the help of big money capitalism, and solve the problem by ensuring a more equitable distribution of the national wealth ... mmmm, let's think about that one.

I would forget about dictionary definitions; The Canadian comedian David Steinberg, after reading that a dictionary defined "bulls**t" as "nonesense", observed that "to define 'bulls**t' as 'nonsense' is bulls**t"

polly · 26-03-2008, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Nice theory ... so, if I believe that it is disgraceful that food banks are needed in a country as rich as Canada, and that Govt. not local charitable donations should make sure that the poor have enough to eat, I should not donate to food banks. The govt. hearing the pleas of the starving, and the cries of the hungry kids would step in, with the help of big money capitalism, and solve the problem by ensuring a more equitable distribution of the national wealth ... mmmm, let's think about that one.

I would forget about dictionary definitions; The Canadian comedian David Steinberg, after reading that a dictionary defined "bulls**t" as "nonesense", observed that "to define 'bulls**t' as 'nonsense' is bulls**t"

Who was it who said

A country can always be judge on how it treats it most vulnerable members of society?

If you believe that you need food banks in Canada things must be in a right state!

Eric · 26-03-2008, 17:16

We should not need food banks in Canada, but we do. There is more than enough wealth in this country, yet like all rich countries, much of that wealth is concentrated in a relatively small number of hands. We are not as bad as some countries, but it is immoral that in a Country as rich as ours anyone should go hungry, or not have adequate shelter. However, I still hold to the point that one has to help the poor with charity at the same time as working to change the system.