Someone is killing hospital patients

Mancie · 15-07-2011, 22:00

Not the main news but pretty scary that there could be a killer targeting patients at a hospital in Stockport...It's suspected that someone has messed about with saline solutions..3 suspected deaths so far.
Anyone who has spent sometime in hospital will know this solution is mostly in drips and is commonly used...now I don't know all the ins and outs but I would imagine the only access to this medication would be by professional staff .. I mean not the cleaners or catering staff.

Lolly · 16-07-2011, 03:32

Absolutely, it was in ampules of saline. These are used for flushes, which are done daily, if you have a drip in sometimes when nothing is going through your blood can back up and flushes are used to clear anything in the line, they are also used for mixes of IV antibiotics. As a student nurse i'm not allowed to touch drips (except to diconnect them) but watch it on a regular basis, but the ampules are used for many different procedures, not just for mixing antibiotics or flushes. I don't know about other trusts but at my hospital the ampules are kept in a locked cabinet in the locked treatment roon (the treatment room is where nurses mix drugs/antibiotics, where controlled drugs such as morphine are kept, also all clinical items (dressings, catheters, wound packs, syringes etc...) are kept. In my hospital this room is locked and is only accessable by 2 nurses with a keycode.

Maybe Stockport needs to take note?? I work on a diabetic ward and insulin is extremely well controlled, who the hell got hold of enough insulin to put it in the ampules?? Thats my worry!!!

jaysay · 16-07-2011, 09:20

There are some people who are sick in the head, its bad enough having to go into hospital, but when when some one who is charged with the care of the sick goes on this type of spree, its very frightening for patients and their relatives. You don't want the added pressure of wondering if your safe in hospital when your already very vulnerable

lettie · 17-07-2011, 13:05

If the Saline has indeed been contaminated with insulin it could have come from anywhere in the supply chain from manufacture to use. Insulin is not a difficult drug to get hold of and the plastic saline ampoules would be much easier to contaminate than the old glass ones. A fine bore needle ought to do it. I wish them well with their investigation but don't expect a conclusion quickly, this could take a while.

Margaret Pilkington · 17-07-2011, 13:07

so are all ampoules of saline now plastic Lettie?

lettie · 17-07-2011, 13:27

I haven't seen a glass one for years Margaret. They tend to be plastic with a twist off top. As far as medicines go, Insulin is an easy one to get hold of. How many Insulin Dependent Diabetics do we have in this country???? All of these people will keep their insulin in their fridge at home. Therefore, there are potentially hundreds of thousands of people with access to Insulin in this country if you bear in mind that Diabetic's and their families can get hold of Insulin, manufacturers, delivery drivers, Pharmacists and their assistants, Hospital Porters, Nurses, Doctors etc..
Could take a while this one.... Sadly, it is this kind of incident which destroys peoples trust in their hospitals. I would be looking for someone with a massive grudge.

Benipete · 17-07-2011, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by lettie

I haven't seen a glass one for years Margaret. They tend to be plastic with a twist off top. As far as medicines go, Insulin is an easy one to get hold of. How many Insulin Dependent Diabetics do we have in this country???? All of these people will keep their insulin in their fridge at home. Therefore, there are potentially hundreds of thousands of people with access to Insulin in this country if you bear in mind that Diabetic's and their families can get hold of Insulin, manufacturers, delivery drivers, Pharmacists and their assistants, Hospital Porters, Nurses, Doctors etc..
Could take a while this one.... Sadly, it is this kind of incident which destroys peoples trust in their hospitals. I would be looking for someone with a massive grudge.

Sadly All It takes for me to be convinced Is your Avatar And Signature

jaysay · 18-07-2011, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

so are all ampoules of saline now plastic Lettie?

Do they use glass for anything like that these days Margaret, one of my meds comes in small single does sealed vials, and they are plastic, you very rarely get tabs of any type in bottles these days they're all in bubble packs (which it a lot of cases are crap.) For my part there are some of my meds which I take out of bubble packs and fill my old pill bottles (which I sterilize regularly along with all my equipment), infact I'm actually after about half a dozen old pill bottles as the ones I have are getting worn.

Margaret Pilkington · 18-07-2011, 10:43

Well, John having been left the service for 9 years I don't know.
All that I know is that glass is safer from a contamination point of view and from a recycling point of view too.
You cannot get into a glass ampoule unless you break it.........but as Lettei has said it would be relatively easy to contaminte plactic vials with a fine bore needle, and you cannot see that it has been tampered with.
If they were still using glass ampoules, then the contamination would have had to have occured at the point of manufacture.
It is going to be really difficult to investigate.

And although it may be an NHS employee, it could just as easily be someone from outside.
I remember one guy who came to Blackburn, got himself a stethoscope and a white coat and spent time at Blackburn Royal conning people he was an anaesthetist(paul somebody or other...it will come back to me )People were shocked that this could happen.......but it did, and who is to say that it isn't somebody like this.

lettie · 18-07-2011, 15:45

Some injectable medications still come in glass ampoules but the generic stuff like saline, water for injections etc is all plastic now. Bogus staff can be a problem in the NHS, there are a few organised gangs who target hospitals to steal belongings and they often have fake IDs on an NHS neck ribbon. We get warnings about bogus doctors by e mail these days but in busy departments, where nobody can get to their e mail, they go unnoticed. Another problem is the amount of Locum docs that the NHS gets. Some Doctors may only work at your hospital for one shift. If they have been hired by your hospital then you have to assume that all the relevant checks have been done.

jaysay · 20-07-2011, 09:22

BBC News - Stepping Hill Hospital deaths: Nurse on murder arrest

Seems they've arrested a nurse in connection with this incident

Tealeaf · 22-07-2011, 20:08

Formal charges now laid.

cashman · 22-07-2011, 23:07

BBC News - Stepping Hill Hospital: Nurse charged after deaths yep seems so.

jaysay · 23-07-2011, 08:40

Somebody must be sick and twisted to be there to help treat the sick and then go on and do that

gynn · 02-09-2011, 21:45

So the nurse who was arrested, charged and named by police, has now had all charges against her dropped. It seems that the evidence that they thought would prove her guilt has not emerged.

So why was she arrested? Why was she charged? Why was she named?

Either they know she is guilty and they just can't put the evidence together to justify charging her.....

..or they were never sure about her guilt but charged her just the same. If so, why? Did they act on gossip and tittle tattle? Were they under pressure to charge someone, regardless of evidence of guilt? Was she a soft option, possibly arrested because someone had a grudge against her?

The police and hospital authorities have some important questions to answer. They owe it to the families of the deceased.