Something doesn't seem right here

[susie123]

He's under 21, can't be sentenced to "life means life":

In England and Wales, life imprisonment is a sentence which lasts until the death of the prisoner, although in most cases the prisoner will be eligible for parole (officially termed "early release") after a fixed period set by the judge. This period is known as the "minimum term" (previously known as the "tariff"). In some exceptionally grave cases however, a judge may order that a life sentence should mean life by making a "whole life order."

Life imprisonment is only applicable to defendants aged 21 or over. Those aged between 18 and 20 are sentenced to custody for life. Those aged under 18 are sentenced to detention during Her Majesty's pleasure for murder, or detention for life for other crimes where life imprisonment is the sentence for adults. However people under 21 may not be sentenced to a whole life order, and so must become eligible for parole.

Life imprisonment in England and Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[cashman]

Cheers Susie that demonstrates clearly the Laws n Ass.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by susie123

He's under 21, can't be sentenced to "life means life":

In England and Wales, life imprisonment is a sentence which lasts until the death of the prisoner, although in most cases the prisoner will be eligible for parole (officially termed "early release") after a fixed period set by the judge. This period is known as the "minimum term" (previously known as the "tariff"). In some exceptionally grave cases however, a judge may order that a life sentence should mean life by making a "whole life order."

Life imprisonment is only applicable to defendants aged 21 or over. Those aged between 18 and 20 are sentenced to custody for life. Those aged under 18 are sentenced to detention during Her Majesty's pleasure for murder, or detention for life for other crimes where life imprisonment is the sentence for adults. However people under 21 may not be sentenced to a whole life order, and so must become eligible for parole.

Life imprisonment in England and Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OK I get most of that Susie.. just goes to show my first post was correct.. this government (well the tories) did say this sort of thing would be sorted..it was a main item in thier manifesto.. it has not been done and ain't likley to be.

[Restless]

Its a hard one to agree on.

What serves as a good deterrent for a person not to commit a heinous act?

Is it 'life' in prison? Is it the death penalty? Some say bring back hanging.. blah blah blah. When I hear that I think of 10 Rillington place.

Well. What I mean is this. Look to America and the crazies they have there. In some places they have the death penalty and it doesn't stop them from committing the crimes such as this. So does either deterrent work?

Is this really Human Nature? and no matter what cannot be stopped? If so it is a shame.

[cashman]

I don't honestly think theres a good deterrent restless, But the simple fact is n Evil Nutcase isn Evil Nutcase n far as i'm concerned should be kept were they can harm no-one Period.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Restless

Its a hard one to agree on.

What serves as a good deterrent for a person not to commit a heinous act?

Is it 'life' in prison? Is it the death penalty? Some say bring back hanging.. blah blah blah. When I hear that I think of 10 Rillington place.

Well. What I mean is this. Look to America and the crazies they have there. In some places they have the death penalty and it doesn't stop them from committing the crimes such as this. So does either deterrent work?

Is this really Human Nature? and no matter what cannot be stopped? If so it is a shame.

There is no deterrent.. I doubt that anyone committing murder takes his or her punishment into account when they kill someone..but "we" can lock these people up forever and use that as a punishment.

[annesingleton]

I have experience of this and I can confirm that a person under the age of eighteen who is convicted of murder will receive a life sentence with a minimum tariff set.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by annesingleton

I have experience of this and I can confirm that a person under the age of eighteen who is convicted of murder will receive a life sentence with a minimum tariff set.

Seen it myself when some under the age of 18 has got a longer sentence for manslaughter than an adult would get for plain murder.. so when will this be sorted out?

[annesingleton]

It was the correct result for the case I'm talking about, but tragic for all concerned.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by annesingleton

It was the correct result for the case I'm talking about, but tragic for all concerned.

How can it be the correct result with a ten year parole board review on an 18yrs old?.. anyone over 18 is classed as adult.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by annesingleton

Please refer to my last posts, it really does depend on the sentence, if it's an indeterminate sentence for public protection it means that the person can be considered for parole after the determined period, but then if it's decided he might be eligible after meeting stringent criteria he/she can apply, but doesn't mean it will be granted. An indeterminate sentence is really much more serious than a life sentence when the prisoner can just apply after the designated sentence.

To me that's totally immaterial Anne anybody who stabs a 15 year old girl because he's jealous shouldn't even be eligible for parole never mind after 10 years, he's obviously a very dangerous person

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

It may be on the books, but rarely used, I mean jeez go back to the train robbers n sentences they got, It depends who yeh upset i.e. that was the Government twas there money, going to be destroyed, but theres. The Krays - murdering thugs, but never really did much against the innocent folk, They upset the Yard n Met etc, The cruelty n severity of Brady n Hindley ensured by public opinion they would never be released, but dickhead Longford still tried to get Hindley out. Knobs like him have helped make society what it is today in my opinion.

Spot on cashy

[annesingleton]

Originally Posted by jaysay

To me that's totally immaterial Anne anybody who stabs a 15 year old girl because he's jealous shouldn't even be eligible for parole never mind after 10 years, he's obviously a very dangerous person

Yes I agree, I was explaining the life sentence/parole rules generally, and I was not referring to this case when I said it was tragic for all concerned, but a case I had some dealings with several years ago - sorry for confusion.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Restless

Its a hard one to agree on.

What serves as a good deterrent for a person not to commit a heinous act?

Is it 'life' in prison? Is it the death penalty? Some say bring back hanging.. blah blah blah. When I hear that I think of 10 Rillington place.

Well. What I mean is this. Look to America and the crazies they have there. In some places they have the death penalty and it doesn't stop them from committing the crimes such as this. So does either deterrent work?

Is this really Human Nature? and no matter what cannot be stopped? If so it is a shame.

There is no deterrent for murder. Look at all the murders commited in Britain in any given year. (Don't look at the States; because there are just too many). How many are actually premeditated? Many of them are what the French would call "Crimes of passion" ... only they would say it in frog In most cases, the perp and the victim are known to one another. Even mass murders are not "normal", in the sense that the killer is a nutbar. In the States, and maybe in most other Western Nations, many murders fall into the, let's say, "disgruntled postal worker" category. And let's not forget the murders that are a direct result of "The War on Drugs"

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Eric

There is no deterrent for murder. Look at all the murders commited in Britain in any given year. (Don't look at the States; because there are just too many). How many are actually premeditated? Many of them are what the French would call "Crimes of passion" ... only they would say it in frog In most cases, the perp and the victim are known to one another. Even mass murders are not "normal", in the sense that the killer is a nutbar. In the States, and maybe in most other Western Nations, many murders fall into the, let's say, "disgruntled postal worker" category. And let's not forget the murders that are a direct result of "The War on Drugs"

*Thread wander alert*

I'm of the opinion that the ability to commit premeditated murder is innate.

People from all walks of life, social upbringing, parental role models etc... have senselessly killed another human being. So I agree with you, there can be no such thing as an effective deterrent for a person who is amoral enough to commit an act as vile as taking a life.

Should murderers be executed? No..its far too humane, after all it's what we do for our sick animals, (and it wont be too long before we can do it to our sick relatives). As evidence I'll cite Gary Gilmore and more recently Anders Brevik who both pretty much begged to be be executed. Gilmore even went to court to select the method of his own destruction.

Should murderers die behind bars? Yes..it appeases my own 'innate' sense of fair play, even though it galls me to have to pay (via taxes) for them, never to have to worry about keeping a roof over their head, never having to worry about putting food on the table, never having to wait for a doctors/specialists appointment, never having to wait in their dementia ridden old age for a carer to pop in for a few minutes to give them their medication and microwaved ready meal.

But then I think, they are never going to spend a drunken friday night with good mates, a sunday walk in the woods with someone special, a drive round the ring of Kerry, a cruise down the nile, xmas with the family etc..etc.. and I really wouldn't mind my taxes being spent on life meaning life..

without the chance of parole..

ever..