Sometimes humor is all that's left.......

[Billcat]

And sometimes, the humor fails to amuse!

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

Even a casual observer would have realized that I was being SARCASTIC here!...... I get a little tired of people like you.....the blame America first crowd. There is only one person responsible for the situation in Cuba.....Fidel Castro. What excuse can be given now that the island has a booming tourist economy, along with foreign investment? The only person who benefits is Castro. I don't see where any of this has helped the Cuban people.

While the Cuban tourist economy is the largest driver of their economy and is increasing rapidly, let's get some facts. I too "get a little tired," but I tire of discussions with vague generalities and unproven facts, or with the excuses that people make when asked to substantiate their claims.

Do vague generalities and supposedly "sarcastic" comments add meaningfuly to the debate? Apparently, we differ greatly on that - but I've always preferred knowing what can be known, so I like to dig for facts.

Let's examine these rather good articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba

1999 - $1.9 billion in gross tourist revenues
2003 - $2.1 billion in gross tourist revenues

That equates to roughly 2.55% compound annual growth. Not an overwhelming growth rate, to be sure. From another website, found the population of Cuba to be about 11.3 million. Doing the simple math, it equates to less than $200 per capita in gross tourist revenues, or about $200 today if the growth rate has remained the same. And, of course, as these are gross revenues, they do not include the costs involved. I'm not convinced that your description of Cuba's tourism industry as "booming" is on target.

And, no, in spite of your claims, I don't blame America for the state that Cuba is in. Dont' know how you managed to come to that erroneous conclusion, but it is hogwash, pure plain and simple. I do think that our foreign policy towards Cuba, virtually unchanged for many, many years, had been clearly demonstrated not to work.

I, and many others, find fault with our government kowtowing to a very small, special interest group of bitter Cuban expats (many of whom were part of the very corrupt, dictatorial Batista government), rather than finding a pragmatic policy that produces results. The rest of the world has moved on (hence, the growth in Cuba's tourism), but the USA is mired in the 1960s regarding Cuba. I see nothing wrong with seeing something that's not working and suggesting that a fix might be in the best interests of all!

Do feel free to

[LancYorkYankee]

Dag Bullseye and Billcat, can't we all just get along?

I guess my plan for an American Accyweb style monthly meeting is out of the question now eh? Thought we could meet up in Washington DC (although my location is probably closer to the middle).

Figure Crimson could head over from Southwest Virginia and yup, even thought of inviting Steeljack. I was afraid he'd ask for meeting in the middle like Denver. Hey, what about New Orleans? Plus I'm sure there are others.

We could sit around Pats and raise some hurricanes to our Accy cousins! Keep Smiling guys!

Hugs and Kisses,

Brian

[bullseyebarb]

Originally Posted by LancYorkYankee

Dag Bullseye and Billcat, can't we all just get along?

I guess my plan for an American Accyweb style monthly meeting is out of the question now eh? Thought we could meet up in Washington DC (although my location is probably closer to the middle).

Figure Crimson could head over from Southwest Virginia and yup, even thought of inviting Steeljack. I was afraid he'd ask for meeting in the middle like Denver. Hey, what about New Orleans? Plus I'm sure there are others.

We could sit around Pats and raise some hurricanes to our Accy cousins! Keep Smiling guys!

Hugs and Kisses,

Brian

Excellent idea, Brian. Sans Hurricanes for me though. Ghastly drink. Maybe we'll work something out one of these days.

[bullseyebarb]

Originally Posted by Billcat

And sometimes, the humor fails to amuse!



While the Cuban tourist economy is the largest driver of their economy and is increasing rapidly, let's get some facts. I too "get a little tired," but I tire of discussions with vague generalities and unproven facts, or with the excuses that people make when asked to substantiate their claims.

Do vague generalities and supposedly "sarcastic" comments add meaningfuly to the debate? Apparently, we differ greatly on that - but I've always preferred knowing what can be known, so I like to dig for facts.

Let's examine these rather good articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba

1999 - $1.9 billion in gross tourist revenues
2003 - $2.1 billion in gross tourist revenues

That equates to roughly 2.55% compound annual growth. Not an overwhelming growth rate, to be sure. From another website, found the population of Cuba to be about 11.3 million. Doing the simple math, it equates to less than $200 per capita in gross tourist revenues, or about $200 today if the growth rate has remained the same. And, of course, as these are gross revenues, they do not include the costs involved. I'm not convinced that your description of Cuba's tourism industry as "booming" is on target.

And, no, in spite of your claims, I don't blame America for the state that Cuba is in. Dont' know how you managed to come to that erroneous conclusion, but it is hogwash, pure plain and simple. I do think that our foreign policy towards Cuba, virtually unchanged for many, many years, had been clearly demonstrated not to work.

I, and many others, find fault with our government kowtowing to a very small, special interest group of bitter Cuban expats (many of whom were part of the very corrupt, dictatorial Batista government), rather than finding a pragmatic policy that produces results. The rest of the world has moved on (hence, the growth in Cuba's tourism), but the USA is mired in the 1960s regarding Cuba. I see nothing wrong with seeing something that's not working and suggesting that a fix might be in the best interests of all!

Do feel free to

A wee bit leery of wikipedia since anybody and their uncle can go onto the site and change things at will. Still, I have no argument with the figures quoted. It may seem like an insignificant percentage to us - but comparable, I believe, to some EU countries. Certainly enough ready cash to keep Fidel in control.

Alas, Cuba exchanged one corrupt dictator for another. Whilst our foreign policy should always be under review, I am not as confident as you appear to be that this situation is fixable as long as Castro is in power. I don't think pragmatism is going to work with him. Diplomacy never works with irreconcilable regimes. The Clinton administration, (with an assist from Jimmy Carter), tried that with North Korea. The EU is still trying to parlay the Iranians. That's not going to work either. The U.N. is corrupt and impotent. At some point, you just have to recognize how dangerous these governments are and deal with them accordingly.

I like facts also. And one certainly has to dig around for them. So, please continue to share. I suspect we shall have to agree to disagree on occasion - but, hey, that's the way the cookie crumbles.