Sunday Trading

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by katex

Must admit, love this new tower Blackburn have erected to get to their refurbished (eventually .. ) car park.

Attachment 15612 Attachment 15613

Have they kidnapped the Arndale clock and holding it hostage ?

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by lindsay ormerod

Said it before, will say it one last time DEMOGRAPHICS, if you don't understand it, google, it; that's why Accy is dead on it's arse, that's why we have no River Island, no Next. Not difficult really.

Not totally sure you're right there. From what I can see, the demographic is pretty much what you would see in many town centres. If the shops don't fit the demographic then why is no one opening stores that do?

Accrington has a very good little infrastructure with free parking and a decent shopping centre but the odd Next or River Island is not going to turn it around. It needs an influx of big name shops to attract more people and if it isn't an attractive prospect then lower the rents for the shops! Anything decent paying full rent is better than an empty unit.

I personally think that it has an awful lot of potential and the only possible thing holding it back is charging rent which doesn't make financial sense at this time. That will be the root of the problem, money usually is.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Not totally sure you're right there. From what I can see, the demographic is pretty much what you would see in many town centres. If the shops don't fit the demographic then why is no one opening stores that do?

'Hyndburn is the 40th most deprived out of 354 council areas. Unemployment is higher than the Lancashire, national and regional averages. There are areas within the borough where long term unemployment and the number of people out of work have contributed to some wards featuring in the worst 10 per cent in England. About one in three residents live in the most disadvantaged 20 per cent of neighbourhoods.'
http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa...Assessment.pdf


...i.e. a place not over run with young urban professionals, or YUPPIES.



It's exactly these sort of figures companies look at, when planning whether an area can financially support their businesses. That, and the historical figure of the number of other similar businesses, who opened, and have since closed. Of which we have many examples in Accrington over the last twenty years.

If you really think the area's socio-economic demographic rates highly on a national scale, perhaps it's time you travelled a bit more, and opened your eyes.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by garinda

'Hyndburn is the 40th most deprived out of 354 council areas. Unemployment is higher than the Lancashire, national and regional averages. There are areas within the borough where long term unemployment and the number of people out of work have contributed to some wards featuring in the worst 10 per cent in England. About one in three residents live in the most disadvantaged 20 per cent of neighbourhoods.'
http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa...Assessment.pdf


...i.e. a place not over run with young urban professionals, or YUPPIES.



It's exactly these sort of figures companies look at, when planning whether an area can financially support their businesses. That, and the historical figure of the number of other similar businesses, who opened, and have since closed. Of which we have many examples in Accrington over the last twenty years.

If you really think the area's socio-economic demographic rates highly on a national scale, perhaps it's time you travelled a bit more, and opened your eyes.

Not going to let that word drop, are you?

It's nothing to do with thinking that the socio-economic demographic rates highly, more that a shopping district with decent amenities will do better than one which has been allowed to run down. Take Preston as an example - Friargate had gone into quite a decline but a collaboration of public and private sector investment totally turned it around within a year.

All town centres need occasional regeneration schemes and Accrington is clearly no different. I'm not suggesting that shoppers are better off than they make out, but I go to Blackburn town centre far more because of the better range of shops. I suspect many other shoppers do exactly the same - people go where they can get what they want.

Accrington has a brilliant setup and I would never knock it but the more empty units you have, the more people will start looking at it as being a bit tatty.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Not going to let that word drop, are you?

It's nothing to do with thinking that the socio-economic demographic rates highly, more that a shopping district with decent amenities will do better than one which has been allowed to run down. Take Preston as an example - Friargate had gone into quite a decline but a collaboration of public and private sector investment totally turned it around within a year.

All town centres need occasional regeneration schemes and Accrington is clearly no different. I'm not suggesting that shoppers are better off than they make out, but I go to Blackburn town centre far more because of the better range of shops. I suspect many other shoppers do exactly the same - people go where they can get what they want.

Accrington has a brilliant setup and I would never knock it but the more empty units you have, the more people will start looking at it as being a bit tatty.

I mentioned it only because I've never seen anyone in the area I'd personally describe as a 'Yuppie'.

A name devised in the eighties to describe the newly professional, with excessive salaries, and therefore large disposable incomes. As examplified by the characters in the films Wall Street, and American Psycho.

If you think that large retail consortiums don't look at all available demographic information, when planning where to site their businesses, you're wrong. I know that as fact, having worked in the industry.

The fact is that the vast majority of people in this area don't have large disposable incomes, to spend on luxuries such as high end fashion, coffee shops etc, but we do have an adequate supply of pound and charity shops.

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by garinda

but we do have an adequate supply of pound and charity shops.

When the Accyweb awards come round I'll nominate you for the best under-statement of the year

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Not going to let that word drop, are you?

It's nothing to do with thinking that the socio-economic demographic rates highly, more that a shopping district with decent amenities will do better than one which has been allowed to run down. Take Preston as an example - Friargate had gone into quite a decline but a collaboration of public and private sector investment totally turned it around within a year.

All town centres need occasional regeneration schemes and Accrington is clearly no different. I'm not suggesting that shoppers are better off than they make out, but I go to Blackburn town centre far more because of the better range of shops. I suspect many other shoppers do exactly the same - people go where they can get what they want.

Accrington has a brilliant setup and I would never knock it but the more empty units you have, the more people will start looking at it as being a bit tatty.

I noticed on Graham Jone's blog you were protesting at the closure of the HSBC bank in Rishton, and petitioning to keep it open.

While that is laudable, ultimately any business that has the facts and figures which prove that a branch is no longer profitable as a going concern, would also arrive at a similar decision.

All retail outlets, whether selling designer handbags or financial services, are out to make a profit. That's a simple economic fact. They aren't in existence to provide a public service. They are there to put money into the pockets of their owners and/or shareholders.

Someone could start a petition to bring Prada, Gucci and Harvey Nichols to Accy's Broadway.

It'll never happen, because this area doesn't have the demographic to support mid market chains such as Karen Millen, Next etc, nevermind the luxury market end of the retail industry.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by lancsdave

When the Accyweb awards come round I'll nominate you for the best under-statement of the year

When Gayle pulls her finger out - hint hint

[garinda]

Originally Posted by lancsdave

When the Accyweb awards come round I'll nominate you for the best under-statement of the year

Rindy - never knowingly understated.



The frightening thing is even some of the better end charity shops are pulling out of the area.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Neil

When Gayle pulls her finger out - hint hint

Is that a nomination for Gayle?

Best use of fingers award.

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by garinda

It'll never happen, because this area doesn't have the demographic to support mid market chains such as Karen Millen, Next etc, nevermind the luxury market end of the retail industry.

There is room for some of that. Everything we sell is over a pound and we survive

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by garinda

I noticed on Graham Jone's blog you were protesting at the closure of the HSBC bank in Rishton, and petitioning to keep it open.

While that is laudable, ultimately any business that has the facts and figures which prove that a branch is no longer profitable as a going concern, would also arrive at a similar decision.

All retail outlets, whether selling designer handbags or financial services, are out to make a profit. That's a simple economic fact. They aren't in existence to provide a public service. They are there to put money into the pockets of their owners and/or shareholders.

Someone could start a petition to bring Prada, Gucci and Harvey Nichols to Accy's Broadway.

It'll never happen, because this area doesn't have the demographic to support mid market chains such as Karen Millen, Next etc, nevermind the luxury market end of the retail industry.

I'll give you your dues, you've researched me well. However, if people aren't prepared to fight against things which are not in the best interests of their village, even if there is a reasonable chance of failure, it means more and more people are just going to roll over and meekly accept decisions which are detrimental to them. Whether or not the HSBC closes, it is a matter of principle and something we owe to the less mobile residents of Rishton.

As far as the luxury end of the market is concerned in Accrington, I don't remember seeing any of those chains outside massive retail parks such as the Trafford and Metro Centres. By your reckoning though, the people of Accrington form part of a demographic that cannot really afford the likes of Next, Debenhams or Marks and Spencer. Personally, I doubt that EVERYONE is that badly off but the choice of shops at the moment will hardly tempt anyone who wants to purchase items from those mid-to-high end stores. Preston was seemingly in much the same boat until fairly recently and yet...read my earlier post.

I would be interested to know how many Accy residents off these boards shop in Blackburn purely through a bigger choice of shops.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I'll give you your dues, you've researched me well. However, if people aren't prepared to fight against things which are not in the best interests of their village, even if there is a reasonable chance of failure, it means more and more people are just going to roll over and meekly accept decisions which are detrimental to them. Whether or not the HSBC closes, it is a matter of principle and something we owe to the less mobile residents of Rishton.

As far as the luxury end of the market is concerned in Accrington, I don't remember seeing any of those chains outside massive retail parks such as the Trafford and Metro Centres. By your reckoning though, the people of Accrington form part of a demographic that cannot really afford the likes of Next, Debenhams or Marks and Spencer. Personally, I doubt that EVERYONE is that badly off but the choice of shops at the moment will hardly tempt anyone who wants to purchase items from those mid-to-high end stores. Preston was seemingly in much the same boat until fairly recently and yet...read my earlier post.

I would be interested to know how many Accy residents off these boards shop in Blackburn purely through a bigger choice of shops.

In the north you only have to go to Whalley, Clitheroe, Harrogate, Leeds, Manchester, to see towns with a wealthier demographic, that supports higher end retail establishments, both multilpes and independents.

It's really very simple economics. Supply and demand.

I didn't 'research' you, by the way.

I just saw you mentioned in Graham Jones's blog.

As I say, I applaud people protesting for something they believe in, but ultimately we're talking about businesses in a free market economy, and their main goal is to maximise their profits, not as community focal points.

Trust me, if this area had a demographic with a higher disposable income, companies would be queueing up to open in Accrington, to tap into that wealth, and increase their profits, but we don't...and they're not.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by garinda

In the north you only have to go to Whalley, Clitheroe, ...... to see towns with a wealthier demographic, that supports higher end retail establishments, both multilpes and independents.

Things must have changed since I last went to Whalley

I wonder why both my sisters, who live in Clitheroe (and Waddington), go shopping in Accrington and Blackburn?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Neil

Things must have changed since I last went to Whalley

I wonder why both my sisters, who live in Clitheroe (and Waddington), go shopping in Accrington and Blackburn?

Because of a genetic cheapness?



Whalley less so, because of it's relatively small size, but it does have very expensive interior and fabric shops, unlike anything we have in Accy.

Hyndburn is the 40th most deprived borough out of 354 council areas. The Ribble Valley isn't classed as deprived, and is much further up the list of the least deprived areas.

Lancashire County Council: Lancashire Profile

Like it or not, these are exactly the sort of facts and figures retail analysts look at when deciding what areas could support, and flourish profitably, new business locations.