Sunday Trading

[Neil]

Originally Posted by garinda

Like it or not, these are exactly the sort of facts and figures retail analysts look at when deciding what areas could support, and flourish profitably, new business locations.

Look at the ones worse than us - Blackpool, Blackburn, Burnley and the one just better Preston.

All of these have a decent town centre with big name shops so there must be more to it.

Unless I am missing the point here.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Neil

Look at the ones worse than us - Blackpool, Blackburn, Burnley and the one just better Preston.

All of these have a decent town centre with big name shops so there must be more to it.

Unless I am missing the point here.

They all have a much larger population than Accrington. Burnley's 88,500 compared to Accrington's 35,000, for example.

Accrington does have some wealth, just as the Ribble Valley has pockets of poverty, but over all the figures are there in black and white. This area has a relatively low socio-economic majority, and isn't able to sustain many mid to high end retail outlets.

For further evidence just look at the shops in Accrington, and the ones that have left over the last decade or so, of which there have been many.

Most retail outlets employ umpteen analysts to look at the foot fall any business is likely to attract, and exactly what socio-economic class, and how much disposable income the area has, before deciding on a location for any business.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

Because of a genetic cheapness?



Whalley less so, because of it's relatively small size, but it does have very expensive interior and fabric shops, unlike anything we have in Accy.

Hyndburn is the 40th most deprived borough out of 354 council areas. The Ribble Valley isn't classed as deprived, and is much further up the list of the least deprived areas.

Lancashire County Council: Lancashire Profile

Like it or not, these are exactly the sort of facts and figures retail analysts look at when deciding what areas could support, and flourish profitably, new business locations.

Things started going down hill when you came home to Ossy Rindi

[Ken Moss]

I've been in Accrington town centre today and I am still mightily impressed by it. It is well designed with lots of attractive old architecture into the bargain and not too empty shops plus free parking. It was also fairly busy considering the demographic....

If it really is only existing to cater for 35,000 residents then they are quite well served, in my opinion. I blew £80 this morning and I wasn't even there to go shopping! I was tempted in by what was there and I'm sure that if there were more of the big name outlets available I would have spent more money.

We should be proud of a town centre like that and support the shops that are there rather than talking it down with figures and statistics.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I've been in Accrington town centre today and I am still mightily impressed by it. It is well designed with lots of attractive old architecture into the bargain and not too empty shops plus free parking. It was also fairly busy considering the demographic....

If it really is only existing to cater for 35,000 residents then they are quite well served, in my opinion. I blew £80 this morning and I wasn't even there to go shopping! I was tempted in by what was there and I'm sure that if there were more of the big name outlets available I would have spent more money.

We should be proud of a town centre like that and support the shops that are there rather than talking it down with figures and statistics.

It's nothing to do with pride, it's to do with being a realist, and living in the real world, not in the world of meaningless spin.

I'll proudly tell you I travel to shop there twice a week, year in, year out.

If there was money to be made, and a gap in the market, the shops and stores would be there to fill it, and make a profit for it's owners/shareholders.

The last figures I've found show that the Arndale has 12 empty units, and the town centre has 20. That doesn't include all the empty shops that are currently being used to sell charity/second hand goods.

For someone who's regularly shopped there for over forty years, that's not what I'd call particularly thriving.

The reasons I've given why most mid to high retail multiples aren't there, are based on the fact that retail analysts do look at the demographics of an area, and as the 40th out of 340 most deprived boroughs in the country, the lack of those shops in Accrington are futher testament that the area can't support them.

People who shop in Accrington regularly will remember all the stores and shops that opened when the Arndale was finished, and have sadly long since vanished.

Care to share which shop(s) benefitted from your £80, that so tempted you to spend money you didn't plan on spending?

I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear.

[katex]

I understand everything you are saying Garinda re. our population's spending power, however, would be interesting to know how the Marks and Spencer store keeps going in our town. They are not exactly cheap goods are they ? Either in the fashion area or the food area. Wonder if the Accrington store does make a profit ?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by katex

I understand everything you are saying Garinda re. our population's spending power, however, would be interesting to know how the Marks and Spencer store keeps going in our town. They are not exactly cheap goods are they ? Either in the fashion area or the food area. Wonder if the Accrington store does make a profit ?

I'm thankful we do have M & S, and it is always busy, especially the food hall.

It'll be a sad day if they ever leave.

[Ken Moss]

M & S was one of the shops that you're all interested to know I went into today. I even spent some money there too. I also went to H Samuel, W H Smith, Poundland and a pie shop although personally I'm not sure anyone will be overly-excited to find that out.

The fact is that I spent money in Accrington town centre because I was tempted by what I saw. If you're saying that a few big name stores have closed in the Arndale Centre since it opened I'd be more inclined to suspect that the rent was too high for the returns rather than a lack of sufficient interest from consumers.

Decent shops attract more shoppers but the odd Next or Marks & Spencer buried amongst a sea of charity shops and pound stores is not the answer. The Trafford Centre is an example of concentrated brands attracting millions of shoppers from all across the neighbouring counties but the shops all need each other to do well in order to justify collossal rents.

I'm not saying Accrington is ever going to be on that scale but there needs to be a reasonable incentive for nationwide chains to open stores there. I suspect the rent being charged was simply too high for the amount of custom.

[garinda]

'In the meantime, empty units at the centre are highly visible with the closures of stores such as Price Less Shoes, Stationery Box, Hampsons, Cryers Sound and Vision, Mark One, Rayman Gifts,the Officers Club, Children’s wear store Adams.'
'New occupants, Paddy Power and Ladbrokes.'
Concerns over empty shops in Accrington (From Blackburn Citizen)


So we waved bye-bye to art materials, kiddies clothes, books, shoes, and fashion, and welcomed two more betting shops.

Two more betting shops to add to the Chavtastically well supported array of mobile phone shops, trackie selling sports shops, and shops where you can buy a carrier bag full of frozen Pit Bull food for a pound.

Whoopie doo.

There is some good news, however. Central government have recently granted Hyndburn, because of it's position on the deprived borough list, £52,632, to help improve it's retail business.

£3million empty shop revival fund for most deprived and hardest hit high streets - Corporate - Communities and Local Government

Even better news would be if everyone in Accy had a spare eighty quid in their pocket, to fritter away on things they didn't plan to buy, and therefore had no urgent need for.

Oh what luxury we'd all feel to be in that position.

All the bills paid, and free to spend on whatever took our fancy whilst mooching round Accy.

Luxury brand retailers would soon be opening in Accrington, and Broadway would be giving Fifth Avenue, and the Rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré a run for their money.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by garinda

Even better news would be if everyone in Accy had a spare eighty quid in their pocket, to fritter away on things they didn't plan to buy, and therefore had no urgent need for.

Oh what luxury we'd all feel to be in that position.

All the bills paid, and free to spend on whatever took our fancy whilst mooching round Accy.

Luxury brand retailers would soon be opening in Accrington, and Broadway would be giving Fifth Avenue, and the Rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré a run for their money.

It doesn't happen very often, let me assure you! However, I still maintain I can't have been the only person in Accrington today that happened to have a bit of spare cash.

It may well be on the list of deprived areas but being all sarcastic about luxury retailers isn't very constructive, is it? I know you call it 'realism' but the whole of Accrington isn't exclusively populated by chavs so where are those people shopping? They will have to travel out of town because the options are not there in Accrington. Rather than the council encouraging more betting shops and pound stores that give town centres a run-down appearance, they could save themselves a future headache by halting the decline now and giving incentives for better quality shops to remain within the shopping centre.

I simply do not believe that Accrington residents are all too poor to need a decent standard of shops. Half of the unemployed people I see are in more expensive designer gear than I could ever reasonably afford! It must come from somewhere.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

It doesn't happen very often, let me assure you! However, I still maintain I can't have been the only person in Accrington today that happened to have a bit of spare cash.

It may well be on the list of deprived areas but being all sarcastic about luxury retailers isn't very constructive, is it? I know you call it 'realism' but the whole of Accrington isn't exclusively populated by chavs so where are those people shopping? They will have to travel out of town because the options are not there in Accrington. Rather than the council encouraging more betting shops and pound stores that give town centres a run-down appearance, they could save themselves a future headache by halting the decline now and giving incentives for better quality shops to remain within the shopping centre.

I simply do not believe that Accrington residents are all too poor to need a decent standard of shops. Half of the unemployed people I see are in more expensive designer gear than I could ever reasonably afford! It must come from somewhere.

It wasn't sarcasm.

I prefer to deal in facts.

If there was a population to support mid to high end retailers, they'd be there, to mop up the profits.

Fact.

If you'd taken the time to read what I actually posted, rather than trying to spin some Utopian shopping fantasy, you'd have read that there are of course lots of social groups in the area, just as there are poorer people in wealthier areas, but you can't get away from the figures in black and white, which state this area has a higher percentage of low income households, with less disposable income to spend on luxury items, other than putting food on their tables, and clothes on their kids backs.

Fact.

Believe me, check the press if you don't, but over the years the council has always been heralding the arrival of new 'big name' retailers to the town.

This has never materialised, in part due to the fact that companies employ retail analysts to report on the socio-economic demographic of the catchment area, and in Accrington's case they've chosen to stay away, and those few who took a gamble, came, and have since departed.

Fact.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Half of the unemployed people I see are in more expensive designer gear than I could ever reasonably afford! It must come from somewhere.

Credit?

Mind, you are rather good.

Personally I simply can't tell who's unemployed, just from looking at someone.

Unless they've started to tattoo it on your forehead when you sign on, and I haven't heard about it.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by lindsay ormerod

Said it before, will say it one last time DEMOGRAPHICS, if you don't understand it, google, it; that's why Accy is dead on it's arse, that's why we have no River Island, no Next. Not difficult really.

For people that don't know Lindsay, and the weight her argument carries because of insider knowledge, she has spent many years managing stores and shops in Accrington.

[Gayle]

I sort of agree with you both. There are people in Accrington who have the disposable income to afford to shop wherever they want and buy whatever they want. Despite being one of the poorest boroughs in the country there are still some pockets of wealth.

However over all, the picture that the retailers is getting is one of poverty and lack of spending.

But there are a number of issues to consider here for regeneration

1. How to get the odd few people who do have the money back into the town centre. Let's face it if you do have some cash you're going to go to somewhere where there is lots of choice rather than rely on one shop. So bringing one Next or one River Island into the town centre isn't going to make a huge difference to shopping habits and it's not going to be very profitable for them.

2. The layout of the town. There are, in my mind, three distinct areas in the town, each with different needs. There's the Broadway/Arndale area, there's the Market/Peel St area and there's the Warner St/Arcade area. When people talk about the town centre they seem to ignore the Warner St/Arcade area but in reality that's where we stand most chance of kick starting regeneration.

3. If we all agree that the quality of shops are poor and the choice is limited then Accrington has to provide something different to draw people in. Whether that is an open air cinema on Broadway or different school bands performing each week or ice rinks and fair ground attractions - that's up for debate. But we need to stop focusing on the shops and focus on the other opportunities. If you can draw people into the town through whatever means you can get people to spend whilst they're there.

4. Finally, one minor issue is that the Arndale is not owned by the Council, it's owned by a business that is in the business of making money. The Council have very little influence in what happens in there, so they can't affect the rents that the Arndale are charging.

These are just my musings.

[garinda]

'Ray James from the Arndale Shopping Centre said Accrington was struggling to compete with other nearby towns.'
£32m Accrington Tesco plan given go-ahead (From Lancashire Telegraph)

.Michael Whewell of Hyndburn Chamber of Trade said: "Town centres up and down the country are trying to face the challenges Tesco brings with no success."
The chamber is vehemently opposed to the site on the edge of the town centre, fearing shoppers will just park there and then drive home.
Ray James, director of Asset Management – the investment company which owns the Arndale Centre – said he was disappointed with the announcement.
He said: "The local authority has shot the town centre in the foot. Tesco will open in 2009 and we will see shops in Accrington town centre close in another four or five years’ time.
"But no matter what we say, the local authority will do what it wants."
He said it was now unlikely Sainsbury’s would go ahead with a plan for a superstore at the rear of the Arndale Centre, which traders would have preferred.'
All systems go for new Tesco - Accrington Observer

'asset manager of the Arndale Centre, Accrington, Ray James, said he understood why Sainsbury’s may pull out because the £32million, 88,000 sq ft Tesco store, off Eagle Street, would ‘crucify’ the town centre. Jo Try, northern development executive for Sainsbury’s said: “The Accrington Town Centre Area Action Plan calls for the strengthening of the town centre and Sainsbury’s supports this in Accrington.
“By granting permission for such a large Tesco the town suffers a double whammy: Other retailers, including Sainsbury’s, may think twice about investing in the town centre and any plans for a revitalised Arndale Centre may also suffer for the same reason.
“Shoppers lose choice and Accrington misses an opportunity to strengthen its town centre.”
Sainsbury's may pull out of Accrington town centre plan (From Blackburn Citizen)

So far I've steered clear of politics, but since you brought it up, besides the demographics of the area, another reason for companies not seeing Accrington as a good investment, is down to some poor long term planning from H.B.C., which will see Accrington's town centre independent retailers, and smaller multiple chains, slowly disappearing from the area.