Swearing

Caz · 22-01-2009, 20:47

There has been a lot of discussion lately, particularly about swearing on TV. Frank Skinner apparently is doing a Panarama about such next week.
Got me wondering about swearing in general. Why are certain words considered vulgar? Who decided which words should be classed as swear words? Why do we use certain words when we are angry when a substitute would suffice?

If we substituted a run of the mill word for a swear word, would that eventually get the staus of a swear word?

A certain word which most decent people see as the most taboo of swear words has been in use since the 13th century, but only more recently has acquired it's status as such. I see this word as disgusting myself, but can't figure out why this in relation to others is such.

After all it's only a combination of letters. Why do we view it in that way?

Do you think swearing in general is on the increase, or just more prolific in certain classes?

Lilly · 22-01-2009, 20:53

I've often wondered how swearing came to be and why it is that some words are offensive.

I think swearing is definitely on the increase. Some people seem to punctuate every sentence with a swear word rather than just swearing occasionally.

Eric · 22-01-2009, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz

There has been a lot of discussion lately, particularly about swearing on TV. Frank Skinner apparently is doing a Panarama about such next week.
Got me wondering about swearing in general. Why are certain words considered vulgar? Who decided which words should be classed as swear words? Why do we use certain words when we are angry when a substitute would suffice?

If we substituted a run of the mill word for a swear word, would that eventually get the staus of a swear word?

A certain word which most decent people see as the most taboo of swear words has been in use since the 13th century, but only more recently has acquired it's status as such. I see this word as disgusting myself, but can't figure out why this in relation to others is such.

After all it's only a combination of letters. Why do we view it in that way?

Do you think swearing in general is on the increase, or just more prolific in certain classes?

I think I know the one you mean ... and it is quite common in Chaucer; it occurs, spelled "queinte" and usually glossed as "female pudendum" ... it doesn't seem to have aquired its present notoriety by the end of the 14th century.

But I agree with George Carlin (7 Words You Can't Say on TV) ... there are no "bad" words ... bad actions, bad intentions, yes ... but words, in and of themselves, are never "bad" ... merely offensive to certain people.

Margaret Pilkington · 22-01-2009, 21:45

Swearing is definitely on the increase.......and I think it is because we(the general public) in the main, accept it.
I do not like swearing. I think it is commonplace, and many women now swear as much as men used to do in the tap rooms in days gone by.

I was on public transport recently when some young men got on the bus. It was apparent that they were going to a football match.
The bus had a varied mix of passengers....youngsters, middle aged men and women and some 'oldies' like me.
The young men effed and jeffed their merry way......without any regard for the children or the women on the bus. They used language that would make a crow blush and was definitely inappropriate for the situation.
I would have like to have gone to them and asked them to moderate their language, as I personally, found it offensive.
My husband dissuaded me from this course of action as he felt they could turn nasty.
So what did I do....I fumed quietly that I had to put up with this...and then I put my earphones in so that I couldn't hear them anymore.

I am sure that we all know the words...and they may have been the common fabric of language back then....but haven't we really devalued ourselves when we use this bad language in other than desperate circumstances?
And isn't it nearly impossible to give our youngsters a good upbringing when they cannot fail to hear this bad language even on TV, radio and in the media?

If the bad language was taken out would the context of the conversation be radically altered?........I think not.

Margaret Pilkington · 22-01-2009, 21:49

Well Eric, I personally find those words offensive...so are you saying that the fault is in me for being offended by such language.
I teach my daughters children that these words are not acceptable in polite company...and as such are 'bad' words(for want of a better phrase).

Caz · 22-01-2009, 21:55

But that's what I'm getting at Margaret. Why are such words considered swear words. Why are words that were once in common use now deemed to be swear words? And why do people, myself included, think some words are worse than others? When all they really are is...words?

Eric · 22-01-2009, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Well Eric, I personally find those words offensive...so are you saying that the fault is in me for being offended by such language.
I teach my daughters children that these words are not acceptable in polite company...and as such are 'bad' words(for want of a better phrase).

No, I'm not saying, or even implying, that there is any fault in finding certain words offensive, any more than finding "Life of Brian" or cartoons of the prophet offensive. What is funny to some is offensive to others. If my buddies and I are sitting in front of the big screen watching hockey, the language tends to what some call "bad." But ... c'mon .... a bunch of guys watching hockey and drinking beer. I do believe most people adjust their vocabulary to the circumstances ... this is merely polite behaviour, and I don't see anything wrong with holding back on the expletives in certain social situations. But this obsession with words sometimes seems to take up time which would be better spent focussing on behaviour.

Margaret Pilkington · 22-01-2009, 22:12

I can't answer that part of your question......personally I use an everyday word as an expletive sometimes(the word I use is Sugar).......I am pretty sure that no-one would find that offensive...whereas names for either male of female genitalia, when used as a form of verbal abuse.......well, it can't be seen as pleasant can it?

And, yes, I do appreciate that they are only words, but it is the way they are used, the tone, the inflection.
Maybe my views are those of an old fashioned era, but it was an era where courtesy and manners were something to aspire to.
It seems that courtesy and manners are a bit thin on the ground at present.

Margaret Pilkington · 22-01-2009, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

No, I'm not saying, or even implying, that there is any fault in finding certain words offensive, any more than finding "Life of Brian" or cartoons of the prophet offensive. What is funny to some is offensive to others. If my buddies and I are sitting in front of the big screen watching hockey, the language tends to what some call "bad." But ... c'mon .... a bunch of guys watching hockey and drinking beer. I do believe most people adjust their vocabulary to the circumstances ... this is merely polite behaviour, and I don't see anything wrong with holding back on the expletives in certain social situations. But this obsession with words sometimes seems to take up time which would be better spent focussing on behaviour.

If a group of guys are sitting around and watching a hockey match or a football match and their language is somewhat ripe....and none of them find it offensive then it is OK......that is akin to the tap room of days gone by...men being men and enjoying banter, but when men are in a public area where women and children are, and they do not adjust their language to accommodate the sensitivities that MAY exist within these groups...then that is bad manners.......and the fall in standards of language seems to have gone hand in hand with a lowering of acceptable behaviour.....rowdyism, vandalism etc.
Foul language is intimidatory, whoever is using it is defying good manners, and in the main, good taste.

Caz · 22-01-2009, 22:22

Margaret I agree with you about the courtesy and manners thing.

As regards to the way words are used, and inflection...I doubt whether some who use these words in every day parlance even know what that word means.

I am just interested to know what makes something a swear word.

For instance, if we used the word Sugar, as you do, often enough, would that eventually be deemed such? Don't get me wrong, I find swearing as offensive as you do, some words more so than others. What i want to know is why do we think this way. Also, why are words relating to the female genitalia more offensive than others? I would never use them. We use names for the male genitalia as a kind of swear word, but these aren't deemed to be as offensive. I don't know Why?

West Ender · 22-01-2009, 22:25

The common usage of 4 letter expletives seems to have increased, among younger people, at about the same rate as unacceptable behaviour. Why these words became taboo in the first place I don't know, though perhaps the taboo was reinforced by Victorian morality (and hypocrisy) which consigned everything even vaguely connected to human reproduction into the closet.

I don't use that language, myself, and I don't want to hear it. When I do hear it, however, it doesn't make me reach for the smelling salts. I just think it's sad that so many habitual users seem to have such limited vocabularies.

cashman · 22-01-2009, 22:27

i too have always wondered who decided what is offensive in society.

everyone is different, regarding tolerance of language, ya can go to some parts of the british isles n FFFING n Jeffing is in everyday use in any company, go to other places n its offensive to people n that is not "How" someone says it, its just saying it that offends.i use some words that i do not find offensive or swearing, yet others might, it beats the hell out of me.

Margaret Pilkington · 22-01-2009, 22:29

No, Caz.......I use it infrequently.
I try to be courteous and treat people how I would like to be treated......it has always been my way.
In my working life i have had foul language hurled at me and I took it because I had to...but I tried to remain calm at all times.
I find the names for male genitalia equally as offensive when they are used as abuse.

As for why we find these words offensive...well, I think we must look back to our upbringing.........I only heard my dad swear if he hit himself with the hammer...and then it was something mild like 'Chuffing'...or 'bloody hell'.
Children these days seem to be exposed to the effing and jeffing from a very early age,(by some parents) so it will be no surprise that they find this to be acceptable language when they grow up.

Eric · 22-01-2009, 22:31

I think that we have to accept too, that certain ways of, say, linguistic tolerance are specific to certain cultures and sub-cultures. For example, there are certain words and phrases I can use in fairly normal Kingston situations, but that I can't type on this forum.

Back in the 70s, Canadian comedian David Steinberg, commented on the inclusion of the word "bull****" in the American Heritage Dictionary. The word was said to mean "nonesense". Steinberg said that to define "bull****" as "nonesense" is "bull****." There is a point to this observation, even tho a couple of letters will probably be omitted when I hit the "post" button.

And that word, I can use in most social situations in Kingston without raising a frozen eyebrow

Margaret Pilkington · 22-01-2009, 22:32

the effing and jeffing doesn't exactly make me reach for smelling salts, but it does make me cringe when it is used in conversation and every other word is an expletive......and you are right West Ender, it does show a lack of vocabulary.