Teen clash in race brawl!

[Ianto.W.]

All the money in the world thrown in the name of 'intregation' at this subject will not be enough to solve the problem, as I stated earlier the will to integrate has to be there. Even though we seem to be into 3rd or maybe 4th generation of the influx of people from the Indian Sub Continent, the 'old ways' still persist. We can not seem to get the 'tribal' factions to integrate with each other, never mind Asian and for want of a better term White to do it, the answer my friends is blowing in the wind, which flag do you want to see fly over Great Britain?

[Lampman]

As promised I have spent sometime perusing Gayle's info.The upshot is I don't know if all the funds have been allocated'fairly'(not enough brains/knowledge on my part).
One item I was reminded of though from an earlier posting of mine was that the NRF funding that provided after school care for youngsters has ended.
Apparently because we have risen out of the 50 most deprived areas!
Now as previously stated,this funding enabled places such as the New Era Centre to provide staff and facillities for the care of young people who having finished school for the day,would probably be 'home alone' until their parents returned from work or other less gainful pastimes.
I will add that this place has provided the service to all kids,irrespective of ethnic background.
Now the dedicated people in Youth Services tried and failed to replace the funding,result half a dozen staff redundant and all the kids back on the streets to find other amusement.
Now most of these kids will probably fair O.K.,some will not!
My meandering point is should Mr.Britcliffe not ensure that funds were available for this former Community flagship? How many of these kids will at some stage fall in with the wrong influence?
I have no answers myself as I do not know the ins and outs of funding,perhaps Gayle you can use your journalistic powers and find out?

[gondola]

SteelJack,

Rest assured I am in no way seeking to promote the agenda of the BNP. I find their views rather ghastly, inappropriate, and think it is high time that some of the mainstream parties addressed issues that give rise to the protest vote which the BNP rely on.

[gondola]

Lampman,

Since you indicate that funding for the New Era Centre has ceased, perhaps I may have my application for the ‘Gondola’s sport club - the binding thread for kids of all backgrounds’ approved. This will help to ensure that these youngsters are not causing havoc on the streets but are indulging in some useful exercise.

Come on Gayle. I’m sure you can justify approving my application. Or have the funds already been set aside to ‘celebrate’ another diversity function?

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by gondola

I’m glad you think my idea a ‘wonderful one’. Hence I am sure you will earmark some funding for myself and those that shall benefit from such an exercise to ‘celebrate’ such a wonderful idea.

I thought you said you wouldn't need funding.

Originally Posted by gondola

In relation to your other question, it is becoming akin to an echo. I have answered it several times yet you insist on asking the same but with a different tilt.

Yes it is getting a bit repetitive but I think you might be getting close to actually answering my question.

Originally Posted by gondola

However, being such a magnanimous fellow, I shall answer it yet again. My view is that integration or community cohesion or whatever phrase you wish to apply to such a concept, requires little in terms of funding but a lot in terms of desire. All the funds in the world without the necessary desire to support them will not yield an integrated society.

Fair enough, that's a repeat of what you said before but I'm not disputing that bit.

Originally Posted by gondola

On the other hand, thinly spread funds coupled with a strong commitment to make a good society into a better one would, in my considered view, generate tremendous impact in terms of a more integrated, harmonious society . The net import of this is that there is not a great need for funds to assist community cohesion.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. However, I don't think money should be thrown at it needlessly, so may be there is some middle line where we would agree.

Originally Posted by gondola

There is a far greater need for a change of mindset. On this basis, therefore, it is my view that a lot of money has been inappropriately directed to futile projects and irrelevant centres.

This is getting to it.

Originally Posted by gondola

This is not specific to Hyndburn but part of a more significant trend. Hyndburn is, broadly speaking, a microcosm of a macrocosm. In fact most of the ideas thought up by ‘community leaders’ in Hyndburn in terms of types of projects, initiatives, community centres etc have at one stage been tried elsewhere, in places like Oldham and Bradford. Thus the anticipated outcomes hoped for from such initiatives are not even localised, and thus their chance of yielding dividends for the community in it’s broadest sense are limited.

As you keep pointing out your response is not directed at any particular group in Hyndburn, yet you seem to have an issue with 'community leaders' in Hyndburn. Why do you believe that the chance of yielding dividents is limited? Surely if they have been tried and tested in larger urban centres there should be more chance of success in smaller towns. Also, whilst you are trying to talk 'generally' you do keep refering to Hyndburn, and this is where I keep repeating myself, what evidence do you have that any groups in Hyndburn are obtaining funding and not using it correctly?

Originally Posted by gondola

Hence I think these types of projects and initiatives ought to become increasingly moribund, whilst projects like the Olympics, or the other alternatives I proposed on here earlier ought to be the desired destination for such funds.

By way of example, I submit an actual example of where funds are going at the moment and there are an untold number of such outfits in Hyndburn (and most other places up and down the country too, the cumulative cost for which must be colossal and far outstrips the 10 million sterling in the article I pasted earlier about tackling the pandemics):

‘’The project aims to improve volunteering opportunities for women of Asian heritage

The volunteers will also be assisted in CV preparation, job searching and investing in their personal development’’.

This is just from one community centre in Hyndburn, assisted by the Lancashire County Council Grants for Growth. I reiterate there are numerous such outfits, doing exactly the same and all funded by the LCC. My question is this. Why is the Job centre not sufficient for such a purpose? Is it the case then that those of Non Asian Heritage also ought not to refer to the Job Centre and instead set up numerous centres sourcing funding from the LCC top enable CV preparation and job searching.

Without knowing much about that project I can not say but I am quite sure that it will have conformed to the standard requirements regarding a project and that fitted the remit of the project fund or it wouldn't have got funding. As for whether it has been spent appropriately or not, I don't know but every project is assessed and evaluated after the event. If you have doubts about any project then I'm sure you can ask Lancashire County Council for the relevant documentation under the Freedom of Information act.

Originally Posted by gondola

I would far rather see the money go to the Olympics or tackling pandemics than such a cause. Others may see it differently, hence why it takes two to make a market.

Over to you.

I am extremely frustrated by the fact that London and the south of the country will benefit from the Olympics. They are taking £112m out of the Arts this year and £77m out of the lottery in general. This is not acceptable that one part of the country will get rich at the expense of other areas.

[Lampman]

So Gayle how about the lack of funding for all kids that I commented on.Surely something that benefits the cross section of the Community should have had priority,over less mainstream interest.
Or am I being naive?

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Lampman

As promised I have spent sometime perusing Gayle's info.The upshot is I don't know if all the funds have been allocated'fairly'(not enough brains/knowledge on my part).
One item I was reminded of though from an earlier posting of mine was that the NRF funding that provided after school care for youngsters has ended.
Apparently because we have risen out of the 50 most deprived areas!
Now as previously stated,this funding enabled places such as the New Era Centre to provide staff and facillities for the care of young people who having finished school for the day,would probably be 'home alone' until their parents returned from work or other less gainful pastimes.
I will add that this place has provided the service to all kids,irrespective of ethnic background.
Now the dedicated people in Youth Services tried and failed to replace the funding,result half a dozen staff redundant and all the kids back on the streets to find other amusement.
Now most of these kids will probably fair O.K.,some will not!
My meandering point is should Mr.Britcliffe not ensure that funds were available for this former Community flagship? How many of these kids will at some stage fall in with the wrong influence?
I have no answers myself as I do not know the ins and outs of funding,perhaps Gayle you can use your journalistic powers and find out?

From what I understand about funding you can sort of break it down into two types

a) one off events/projects that have a short term life span - these are usually managed by freelance workers or are incorporated into someone's job role within a larger remit - i.e. smaller scale
b) projects that should be converted into a sustainable resource/project - a large scale, long term project that employs dedicated staff

From what you have said above, the project should fall into (b) and yes should be sustainable. There are of course, a few ways of doing that - obtaining funding from a different source, converting some aspect of the project into a profit making resource or asking for the local council to feed into it from their budget.

All of these methods have their flaws and too often I see projects that should be sustainable fail because they have not been prepared for the point when funding will be withdrawn. Although, withdrawn is the wrong word as it is always known from the start of the project how long the funding will be guaranteed for. Too often organisations rely on the funding that they're getting and don't look for alternatives until it is too late. I'm not saying that happened here, that is just one possible reason why it happened in the way it did.

As for whether Britcliffe should fund it - in my opinion, not necessarily - the council has a limited budget and they can not always be the fall back position for groups that have run out of funding. They just don't have that kind of money.

[gondola]

Gayle wrote: I thought you said you wouldn't need funding.

A little jest for purposes of illustrating a point. The pedant in you took it quite literally. I gave an example of how integration can be achieved without the need for funding. Why is it that none of the so called community do gooders do not undertake such exercises if they are so concerned about integrating different communities?

Gayle wrote: Surely if they have been tried and tested in larger urban centres there should be more chance of success in smaller towns. Also, whilst you are trying to talk 'generally' you do keep referring to Hyndburn, and this is where I keep repeating myself, what evidence do you have that any groups in Hyndburn are obtaining funding and not using it correctly?

I am questioning the benefits of awarding such funds to projects that I think do not need funding, as I have pointed out above. In my view the needs of these projects, if they are deemed necessary, can be met through current facilities that exist, or by using a fraction of the money that is awarded . I think integration does not necessarily require funds, certainly not in anything like the magnitude currently being directed towards such ventures.

Gayle wrote: Without knowing much about that project I can not say but I am quite sure that it will have conformed to the standard requirements regarding a project and that fitted the remit of the project fund or it wouldn't have got funding. As for whether it has been spent appropriately or not, I don't know but every project is assessed and evaluated after the event. If you have doubts about any project then I'm sure you can ask Lancashire County Council for the relevant documentation under the Freedom of Information act.

For the last time, questioning the benefit of a project does not infer fraudulent activity. Unless of course you know something and you are wanting to let me know.

Gayle wrote: I am extremely frustrated by the fact that London and the south of the country will benefit from the Olympics. They are taking £112m out of the Arts this year and £77m out of the lottery in general. This is not acceptable that one part of the country will get rich at the expense of other areas.

I am extremely delighted that such money is being directed to a magnificent landmark for this country. The governments blunder on project planning for the Olympics has meant that lottery money shall be directed to what, in my view, is a far more deserving cause than what it otherwise would have been intended for. The Olympics shall serve to put Britain on a better platform in terms of a commitment to sporting excellence, will regenerate a deprived part of the capital, will create jobs in numerous industries (such as construction and retail), will boost tourism, and will be something to remember for generations to come.
Roll on the Olympics!

[Neal]

Would accrington web qualify for funding as it's for the entire community, not limited to one sector?

This is a genuine question, as i'm getting annoyed at council organisations in my town funding businesses that make community websites but don't help those who pay their own cash to keep them going.

[gondola]

Neal,

A good point.

I can say without doubt that if I was given just a fraction of what these community organisations are provided, I could encourage far more integration between different communites than all these silly projects that seem to get funds currently do.

[Gayle]

In theory Neal, yes they could, however, there are a few issues that would need to be addressed first - firstly, accyweb doesn't have a management committee as such (I know it has the mods but that's not quite the same), secondly, from what I know it does not have independent accounts drawn up and a bank account and thirdly it does not have a formal constitution (it does have rules so technically they would suffice).

After ensuring all that was in place you would then have to look for the funding pot that matched your remit.

[gondola]

A management committee, set of accounts, and a constitution take no more than a few hours to set up.
It is rather straightforward. This should not be an impediment.

However, in relation to sourcing funds, why does Gayle, who secures funds for numerous organisations not direct those responsible for accyweb to an appropriate source and assist them with obtaining funds.

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by gondola

Neal,

I can say without doubt that if I was given just a fraction of what these community organisations are provided, I could encourage far more integration between different communites than all these silly projects that seem to get funds currently do.

It comes as no suprise to me that you can change the world. Good luck

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by gondola

A management committee, set of accounts, and a constitution take no more than a few hours to set up.
It is rather straightforward. This should not be an impediment.

However, in relation to sourcing funds, why does Gayle, who secures funds for numerous organisations not direct those responsible for accyweb to an appropriate source and assist them with obtaining funds.

I have offered to do so - however, the site is owned by one person and at the moment he's extremely busy and possibly not inclined to do this. I can not answer for him.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by gondola

I can say without doubt that if I was given just a fraction of what these community organisations are provided, I could encourage far more integration between different communites than all these silly projects that seem to get funds currently do.

Originally Posted by gondola

A management committee, set of accounts, and a constitution take no more than a few hours to set up.
It is rather straightforward. This should not be an impediment.

If it's all so simple as you suggest why have you not done it? You seem to feel that it would be worthwhile and that you would be good at it.