The case against traffic lights

[WillowTheWhisp]

I can't see it working in this country for pedestrians. Can you imagine walking amongst the traffic? You'd never survive! Some drivers don't even give you time to get all the way across at a pelican if the lights change.

[Ber999T]

I'm willing to be corrected on this but in the late 80's and early 90's we took holidays in South Wales around the St David area and Haverfordwest. If memory serves me right the ALL of that county (Gwent) did not have one junction controlled by lights it was all mini and midi round-a-bouts and traffic flowed well enough and people were able to cross the roads and there were some pelican crossings too.

must say I too noticed that some areas run better without the lights working (Darwen St in Blackburn Henery St Church)

[WillowTheWhisp]

When I was in Ireland the only place we encountered traffic lights was in Dublin. Mind you, the roads were so quiet you hardly saw another car.

[steeljack]

here in my area of California every cross street is marked with white lines giving the pedestrian the right of way , any vehicle turning into or from the street is required to give way to pedestrians , mid block/street you take your chances

[cashman]

Originally Posted by steeljack

here in my area of California every cross street is marked with white lines giving the pedestrian the right of way , any vehicle turning into or from the street is required to give way to pedestrians , mid block/street you take your chances

that sounds like n idea worth adopting i think.

[Less]

I've found the actual video clip it's on this page:-

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Newsnight | The case against traffic lights

[katex]

Comments from my personal Traffic Consultant ... :-


"Interesting however...



There needs to be a distinction made between major and minor roads. The distinction is raised in the news article but it is quickly passed over – the diagram below is a conceptual diagram which illustrates how the distinctions should be made between a major (national highway) and minor (local street) road. Minor streets with residential land uses would be better served without traffic lights. However, a major road (which I would roughly define as any A-road) requires traffic lights to ensure the controlled interaction of traffic moving in different directions. They are not simply there to be a 'retrospective cure' for main road priority. However, each case needs to be judged on the specific conditions at the site, plus there are political motivations and legal implications to consider too.



Statistically, traffic lights provide the safest traffic management tool currently available for large volumes of traffic on major roads. Roundabouts and Give Ways produce higher levels of incidents and more serious incidents. However, I accept that people are cognitive entities, capable of interactive behaviours and independent thought and traffic signals (by their very nature) assume that people cannot think for themselves. However, the uncontrolled interaction of large volumes of traffic, moving at higher speeds than 30mph, interacting with pedestrians and cyclists at key junction points would result in higher incident rates and the less efficient movement of traffic overall.



I do concede however, that traffic signals are the biggest cause of delay in urban areas, not the volume of cars. The A56 for example has 14 sets of traffic lights between Altrincham and the M60. This is also in the top ten most congested links in Manchester. Whilst I admit this is excessive, the volume of vehicles using the A56 during the AM and PM peak is huge. If all the traffic signals were removed, I suspect that you would end up with faster journey times on the major road (because the flows are heavier) but excessive delays on the approach minor roads because people would be unable to pull into traffic. The traffic on the major road would also be moving at a higher average speed.



Traffic signals are also not simply designed to be static entities. They are capable of interacting with, and responding to, changes in traffic flows. For instance, traffic lights will remain on green along major roads unless a vehicle pulls up to the junction at the minor entry road. Traffic signals are fitted with ‘induction loops’, a strip of electromagnetic copper wire in the floor that is interrupted when a vehicle travels over it (look for a black rectangle strip in the floor at traffic signals), which then let the signal box near the junction know a vehicles is waiting to pull into traffic and changes the signals accordingly. Similarly, if a pedestrian pushes the button at a crossing point, the signal will wait until the safest point in the signal cycle before allowing the pedestrian to cross. If the pedestrian pushes the signal and then walks away from the crossing, an infrared scanner on the top of the signal will detect the pedestrian is no longer waiting to cross and cancel the pedestrian crossing phase in the signal cycle (in theory!).



The 'shared space' concept is an excellent idea and has been applied with some success in European countries - the Netherlands use it as a standard design in housing estates. It allows the creation of place and forces drivers to interact with their surroundings and become consciously aware of the environment around them. It creates a living place rather than a street scene dominated by the car. In my opinion, this is more appropriate for residential areas. For instance, the average pavement width in a residential areas (where people live, walk, interact, kids play and people subconsciously spend a great deal of their lives) is 2m, by contrast, the average roads width is 7m. Why is the car given the majority of the ‘streetscene’ when it is only a casual user? Why is the pedestrian/resident no given priority over this space?



Conceptual diagrams of the difference between a ‘link’ and a ‘place’ – Definition of road classification

(Sorry .. couldn't get these to copy and paste . me being thick .. Kate)









Personally, I realise that traffic signals have a role to play but it’s the associated rubbish that accompanies them and the tendency to overdesign that annoys me! Like putting guard railings around junctions – if you aren’t clever enough to work out that a car moving a 30mph would hurt if you stepped into the road and it hit you then you need to watch a road safety video! The ridiculous thing is those guard railings would have difficulty stopping anything above 30mph from mounting the pavement and they have a tendency to make vehicles ‘flip’ too!



Anyway, that’s my rant! This is all quite up to the minute debate that is occurring – if you want to have a look at a scheme where they have made a reasonable compromise between good quality streetscene and the need to control traffic, look at Kensington High Street in London – it’s quite good but not exceptional. Places should inspire people – anything less is just a compromise."

[Bonnyboy]

It has to be worth having some sort of trial I would say. Turn the lights off but leave them in place, if it turns out that a particular junction has to be managed by lights then turn the buggers back on. The junctions which are deemed as successful can have the lights dug up over time.

[katex]

Wish they would put traffic lights at the junction with Moscow Mill Street, Ossy and Union Road. Have to turn right there most nights and can wait forever before I can get out ... mainly for some kind person on the main road to let me.. The ones coming down and turning right always cut the corner.. tonight for instance .. did hold back before I got to the 'edge'. Good job too as this white van would surely have taken my driver's side lights with him. Was just intuition.

[thomas.lee]

I actually think they should trial the switch off of traffic lights.

[blazey]

if we get rid of traffic lights I will be absolutely amazed.

And probably dead in less than a week of them being removed.

[panther]

can ya imagine what church will be like and dill hall lane it they did that!!?

[thomas.lee]

Originally Posted by panther

can ya imagine what church will be like and dill hall lane it they did that!!?

As I said before, Dill Hall Lane traffic lights went down a few weeks back during rush hour traffic. Ive never ever seen the traffic run as smoothly as it did when they were off.

[panther]

really?.......was that at rush hour too?

[thomas.lee]

Originally Posted by thomas.lee

A few weeks back the Dill Hall traffic lights went out (Crossroads near HSC & Fire Station) in all directions at rush hour (around 4-5pm). I must say, its the quickest and easiest Ive ever got home!

The 60pmh zone from Dunkenhalgh Roundabout towards the crossroads was empty as the traffic was just flowing free & easy!

4-5pm Rush Hour