The Culture of Death marches onwards!

[DaveinGermany]

Religion in general is a crutch. For the fervent (less self assured people) it is their reason & answer to why good or bad things happen to them & in their lives. Not being strong willed enough to accept that perhaps something they've done could be responsible for their conditions & troubles they seek to apportion blame & or responsibility to an omnipotent, omnipresent untouchable greater being or beings.

The casual religionist accepts that they are responsible for their own lives & rely on religion to a lesser extent. In so far as perhaps something has happened that they can find no rhyme or reason to, but attribute their "good fortune" to the presence of a greater being, but are still not blinded by religious enthusiasm.

Atheists accept full responsibility for their own lives they have no requirement for a superior being to control or guide them in their day to day pursuits, any reference to God or Gods is purely in the turn of phrase. They have no faith in or time for these mythical entities.

Religion has such a social connotation that when faced with a questionnaire with a choice of religions we would rather tick a religious box rather than the "Non" to avoid the myriad questions & queries or the associated negative opinions such a choice generates. Each of us should be left to our own choice of religion or not without detriment or social ostracism for our personal choice.

As in this case Mr Pope, may not fill the complete ideals expected from a profound Catholic view point but obviously he fits the bill. This I would say is endemic in our modern society, how many other people are in positions of power & authority today without a fully relevant background or the fundamental basics ? So long as that person can do the job well, honestly & to the best of their ability without impairment to those they serve, their commitment to a religion should be immaterial.

[Barrie Yates]

I wonder if he was "head-hunted" for the position, or applied for the position once he realised he was going to be tarred with the same brush as the other thieves in the Palace of Westminster

[Eric]

From what I read every day, and from what I hear and see on the radio and tv, the Roman Catholic Church has a helluva lot more to worry about than Mr. Pope's appointment. I believe that Papal Infallibility founded on an inflexible dogma is on the way out. And about time too. I don't think that this will be the end of the Church, just the end of the Church as we have come to know it.

[cashman]

to be honest think A-Bs got a bee in his bonnet about this, fer some reason.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

You would think, naturally, that anyone applying for the position of Deputy Director of the Catholic Education Service (CES) would be, well, at least as Catholic as the Pope. And you would think that an organisation such as the CES would make pretty sure that candidates wouldn't have done or said anything which might be in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church. I mean, charged with the education of thousands of little catholics, you would naturally expect that everything would be correct, proper and orthodox. Well, you would, wouldn't you.

Guess what nice little earner Greg Pope has just walked into?

That's right, Deputy Director of the Catholic Education Service.

With his voting record on Abortion!

Is it any wonder the church and the country is falling to pieces.

What a badly put together first post in a thread that is A.B.!
I could never have expected such shoddiness from you in all my years of reading your normally sensible and well thought out descriptions of the world and it's inhabitant's.

I personally give not a monkey's who, any of these religious groups be they small or large feel a need to employ, so long as at the end of the day it leads for improvement and honesty within their system, something I suspect the Catholic Faith has not proved to be over recent years.

I do however give a monkey's when such Faith's prove themselves to be lacking in the basic's to comfort the mere humans on this planet awaiting their turn to be lifted to the higher plains of paradise.

Any omnipresent being that could design the system most of the World's Population has to endure aught to be committed and any of his so called followers that only make the situation worse should be promised an eternity of Hell here on Earth, not protected by the hierarchy of their Church for the avoidable Sin's they have commited.

I could work for the Catholic Church and put forward a far more moral stance than most of the Priests I have met.

Guess what Religion I am? Bobbles, (A.B. is far too formal), I reckon I follow the teachings of the big book far better than most of those paid to preach about them.

[shillelagh]

well as a c of e ... he applied for the job .. and he got it .. so whats the problem? Would you rather see him down the local job centre signing on .. and receiving job seekers allowance etc ...

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

You would think, naturally, that anyone applying for the position of Deputy Director of the Catholic Education Service (CES) would be, well, at least as Catholic as the Pope. And you would think that an organisation such as the CES would make pretty sure that candidates wouldn't have done or said anything which might be in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church. I mean, charged with the education of thousands of little catholics, you would naturally expect that everything would be correct, proper and orthodox. Well, you would, wouldn't you.

Guess what nice little earner Greg Pope has just walked into?

That's right, Deputy Director of the Catholic Education Service.

With his voting record on Abortion!

Is it any wonder the church and the country is falling to pieces.

I'll say it now the so called Arclylic-Bob is a Bigot..always has been and always will be..

[Mancie]

You have a big gob Bob ... nowt wrong with that .. but you keep on talking kak..get real and stop spouting rubbish that most people don't believe in.

[Tealeaf]

Well, we know Greg's voting record on abortion - but who can now remember his voting record on Goldfish? As we saw a few weeks ago, the end result of that was a bunch of grannys getting criminal records for flogging the said fish to minors.

I wonder what Rome's policy is on selling Goldfish and if this in any way contradict's Greg's stance?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

I knew Greg Pope is a Catholic, I don't think it's any big secret, because he told me, when I contacted him when he was due a free vote on stem cell research.

He listened to lots of his constituents, and voted how he thought he should vote. Which wasn't the same as I'd have voted, but I respected his decision.

To be quite honest, I totally support stem cell research, because there is great need to find cure for a number of diseases, without medical research a lot of people would be worse of now than they are, yours truly being one of them, I think you'll find the lots off people hat oppose this type of research would soon change their tune if they or one of their loved ones were struck down with illness

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

To be quite honest, I totally support stem cell research, because there is great need to find cure for a number of diseases, without medical research a lot of people would be worse of now than they are, yours truly being one of them, I think you'll find the lots off people hat oppose this type of research would soon change their tune if they or one of their loved ones were struck down with illness

Greg Pope listened to my argument, and others, and had his own personal experience of the types of illness that could be helped by stem cell research.

He voted how he did, partly down to his faith, I suspect, and I have to respect that

[garinda]

After the Gunpowder Plot, I think he's jolly lucky, big C, or little c, to be able to enter Parliament at all.

[Acrylic-bob]

Bee in my bonnet and an habitual bigot, not to mention shabby posting. Well don't beat around the bush chaps, why not say what you really think.

Whether you subscribe to the beliefs of the Roman Church, or any other church, or none at all, is a matter for you and your conscience. I do not intend to get into a long and deeply boring discussion on the relative merits of faith versus atheism at the moment; maybe on another thread at another time.

What I find interesting in the appointment of Greg Pope is the blatant display of hypocrisy. Garinda has spoken to Greg and reckons he's a nice bloke - Rindi honey, he's a politician. and there is no such thing as a 'nice' politician. Just some who twist the truth and lie less than the others. Sadly that does not qualify them as 'nice' in the sense that one would confidently take them home to tea with mother, certainly not without checking the silverware before they left the house. All politicians are economical with the truth, that is their stock in trade, and any politician who tries to convince you otherwise is..well..lying.

As jaysay has pointed out, quite a number of catholics disregard the teachings of the magisterium on quite a number of issues, as do a significant proportion of the clergy, at all levels. In much the same manner, quite a number of people disregard the Law on a number of issues - does that make the Law wrong?

The thing that really irks me, the bee in my bonnet if you will, is that there is a gradual and increasing dilution of standards, in public life. The parliamentary scandals of the last year have given more than enough evidence of this fact. It is also undeniably true that, despite Blair's mantra of "Education, Education, Education." this dilution of standards has also taken place in our schools. The State education system is now a pale shadow of what it once was, at a time when the country needs it to be stronger and more effective than ever. Catholic educational establishments were often seen as a bulwark against diminishing standards (why do you think that Blair sent his kids to the London Oratory School?) The CES formerly maintained a high ethical and moral standard absolutely in line with the teaching of the magisterium and what parents expected of it. How can it continue to claim such high standards if its deputy director sees nothing wrong in the murder of infants in the womb, or that it is morally responsible to have sex outside of marriage purely for recreation, or that children really do not need to have a father in their lives, or that it is perfectly acceptable to polish granny off when she becomes a nuisance or the costs of her health care might swallow up too much of the kid's inheritance.

This is wrong. it always was and it always will be. Call me a bigot all you wish, but doing so will not make it right.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

Bee in my bonnet and an habitual bigot, not to mention shabby posting. Well don't beat around the bush chaps, why not say what you really think.

Whether you subscribe to the beliefs of the Roman Church, or any other church, or none at all, is a matter for you and your conscience. I do not intend to get into a long and deeply boring discussion on the relative merits of faith versus atheism at the moment; maybe on another thread at another time.

What I find interesting in the appointment of Greg Pope is the blatant display of hypocrisy. Garinda has spoken to Greg and reckons he's a nice bloke - Rindi honey, he's a politician. and there is no such thing as a 'nice' politician. Just some who twist the truth and lie less than the others. Sadly that does not qualify them as 'nice' in the sense that one would confidently take them home to tea with mother, certainly not without checking the silverware before they left the house. All politicians are economical with the truth, that is their stock in trade, and any politician who tries to convince you otherwise is..well..lying.

As jaysay has pointed out, quite a number of catholics disregard the teachings of the magisterium on quite a number of issues, as do a significant proportion of the clergy, at all levels. In much the same manner, quite a number of people disregard the Law on a number of issues - does that make the Law wrong?

The thing that really irks me, the bee in my bonnet if you will, is that there is a gradual and increasing dilution of standards, in public life. The parliamentary scandals of the last year have given more than enough evidence of this fact. It is also undeniably true that, despite Blair's mantra of "Education, Education, Education." this dilution of standards has also taken place in our schools. The State education system is now a pale shadow of what it once was, at a time when the country needs it to be stronger and more effective than ever. Catholic educational establishments were often seen as a bulwark against diminishing standards (why do you think that Blair sent his kids to the London Oratory School?) The CES formerly maintained a high ethical and moral standard absolutely in line with the teaching of the magisterium and what parents expected of it. How can it continue to claim such high standards if its deputy director sees nothing wrong in the murder of infants in the womb, or that it is morally responsible to have sex outside of marriage purely for recreation, or that children really do not need to have a father in their lives, or that it is perfectly acceptable to polish granny off when she becomes a nuisance or the costs of her health care might swallow up too much of the kid's inheritance.

This is wrong. it always was and it always will be. Call me a bigot all you wish, but doing so will not make it right.

Well I've always taken the view that the two things that should not be argued about in the Pub is politics and religion, I think I'll toddle of now and open a bottle of Stella

[Mancie]

High moral stantards Bob but your on a loser.. go back to your old self and bleat on about fox hunting, gays, the evil of contraception even in marriage..I suspect these are the bold principles you and the like want our children to be taught.