The Culture of Death marches onwards!

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Well I've always taken the view that the two things that should not be argued about in the Pub is politics and religion, I think I'll toddle of now and open a bottle of Stella

Exactly what my Dad taught me over 50 years ago - no politics, no religion - and no football, because if they don't support Man Utd then they know nowt about football, so no point in even discussing it with them.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

The thing that really irks me, the bee in my bonnet if you will, is that there is a gradual and increasing dilution of standards, in public life. The parliamentary scandals of the last year have given more than enough evidence of this fact. It is also undeniably true that, despite Blair's mantra of "Education, Education, Education." this dilution of standards has also taken place in our schools.

well i agree there is a gradual and increasining dilution of standards, no arguement yon, But to infer greg pope getting this job somehow dilutes it, that i cannot see, in fact to me thats as big a load of crap,as that you rightly accuse polititions of spouting.

[Hiddlebit]

Anyone who complains about the youth of today needs to remember who the parents and grandparents are.

And hang their heads in shame. Because if anyone is to blame, it's them. Including me.

Kids spend less than 20% of their time in school (6/7 hours a day, 180 days a year). The rest of the time they're ours.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Hiddlebit

Anyone who complains about the youth of today needs to remember who the parents and grandparents are.

And hang their heads in shame. Because if anyone is to blame, it's them. Including me.

Kids spend less than 20% of their time in school (6/7 hours a day, 180 days a year). The rest of the time they're ours.

Well said.. it's something people seem to forget when they slag off our youth and society in general.

[Margaret Pilkington]

That is a fine observation....except, children and young adults today are nothing like they were when I was a child. I would not have dreamed of questioning a teacher, or refusing to do what I was told by a person in authority.
they are influenced by many more things than their parents(TV. media, internet).......and while we are about it, it does seem that parents have few rights over their children......social services can intervene and stop parents from doing what they(the parents) feel is morally right if the child disagrees with it.
Parenting is the hardest job in the world......there is no handbook and the job description doesn't fit every child.
The other observation I would like to make, is that the poor parents have feral children who influence the children of stricter/fairer/better parent....the parents who insist that their child attends school, does their homework, tidies their room, acts responsibly.
somehow the parents of feral children are seen as 'cool' rather than being proper parents.

Stop knocking parents.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

That is a fine observation....except, children and young adults today are nothing like they were when I was a child. I would not have dreamed of questioning a teacher, or refusing to do what I was told by a person in authority.
they are influenced by many more things than their parents(TV. media, internet).......and while we are about it, it does seem that parents have few rights over their children......social services can intervene and stop parents from doing what they(the parents) feel is morally right if the child disagrees with it.
Parenting is the hardest job in the world......there is no handbook and the job description doesn't fit every child.
The other observation I would like to make, is that the poor parents have feral children who influence the children of stricter/fairer/better parent....the parents who insist that their child attends school, does their homework, tidies their room, acts responsibly.
somehow the parents of feral children are seen as 'cool' rather than being proper parents.

Stop knocking parents.

I agree with most of what you say Margaret, I nearly always do but there are some very bad parents knocking about, mind you there was when we were young too, funnily though lots of kids that grew up have bad parents have made upstanding citizens, but also some haven't

[Margaret Pilkington]

John, that maybe becuse we are from the same era.
And yes, there were some poor parents about when we were growing up, but the difference was, there was discipline at school......and there were people to look up to at school. There were also organisations which fostered good citizenship...... cubs, scouts, Church Brigade......and remember more of us were affiliated to churches and organisations then.
Our minds were not contaminated(though I am not sure that that is quite the right word to use) by insidious TV junk and poor influences from the media.
Life was so different......I think maybe our expectations were lower too. We did not expect to 'have everything'....'do everything'.
We were influenced by the fact that most of our parents worked damned hard to give us a better life than they had......and remember the war was fresh in their minds.

I don't think we were as materialistic either. we were grateful for whatever we were given.
My perception of the children of today(and I may be wide of the mark, seeing as my own daughter is in her 40's - Sorry Nicola)is that they want everything yesterday....and they want designer stuff.......everything has to be bigger(or in some cases) such as technology, smaller, more 'now' and they compete with friends who seem to have everything....they are more influenced by advertisements and consumerism.
Parenting is getting harder and harder.......with more pressures being placed on parents and folk giving parents bad press. Very unhelpful.

[cashman]

those last two posts have nailed it bang on IMHO. Margaret.

[Margaret Pilkington]

thanks for your vote of confidence Cashy...much appreciated.

[Hiddlebit]

Except... I'm hearing comments that say that kids expect too much - and who set those expectations? Not the kids. Not the schools. My parents went through the hell of war as children. They knew grinding poverty and decided I would not, if they could help it. Comparatively I certainly wasn't spoiled but I learnt to expect more...and so it goes.

Don't tell me it wasn't the same for you, for I'd find it difficult to believe at best.

It's easy to blame others for our own failings. Time to accept some of it don't you think?

[Less]

Originally Posted by Hiddlebit

Except... I'm hearing comments that say that kids expect too much - and who set those expectations? Not the kids. Not the schools. My parents went through the hell of war as children. They knew grinding poverty and decided I would not, if they could help it. Comparatively I certainly wasn't spoiled but I learnt to expect more...and so it goes.

Don't tell me it wasn't the same for you, for I'd find it difficult to believe at best.

It's easy to blame others for our own failings. Time to accept some of it don't you think?

Perhaps it's age, perhaps it's a lack of intellect, but am I correct in thinking this isn't what the topic started by Bobbles is about? This is in fact what would normally be called a 'Thread wander'?

I checked by reading through the thread again from the beginning and the first mention of children being complained about was:-

Originally Posted by Hiddlebit

Anyone who complains about the youth of today needs to remember who the parents and grandparents are.

And hang their heads in shame. Because if anyone is to blame, it's them. Including me.

Kids spend less than 20% of their time in school (6/7 hours a day, 180 days a year). The rest of the time they're ours.

From there on, this has become the main theme of the thread, so perhaps we can get back on topic and discuss the wrongful accusations of children in it's own thread?

[steeljack]

wonder if the Lancashire Evening Telegraph is now using Accy web as a news source

"His appointment has prompted some concern due to Mr Pope's voting record in parliament, particularly on keepnig abortion legal at 16 weeks. "
intersting that no mention is made of the source of the 'concern'

Former Hyndburn MP gets new job (From Lancashire Telegraph)

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

My perception of the children of today(and I may be wide of the mark, seeing as my own daughter is in her 40's - Sorry Nicola)is that they want everything yesterday....and they want designer stuff.......everything has to be bigger(or in some cases) such as technology, smaller, more 'now' and they compete with friends who seem to have everything....they are more influenced by advertisements and consumerism.
Parenting is getting harder and harder.......with more pressures being placed on parents and folk giving parents bad press. Very unhelpful.

I'm with you Margaret and I do believe that the world has become obsessionally materialistic but I do think that the parents have to take responsibility for how their kids turn out.

My family were hard up and one of my parents was always out working while the other looked after us at home. They couldn't afford the latest gear and we knew it but what they gave us in abundance was time.

If more people turned round to children and explained that real life is not like an episode of Hannah Montana then we might not have the 'want it now' culture that we're raising.

I got a paper round at 12 coupled with a labouring job after school at a local nursery and it taught me the value of money. That is the root cause of many problems as things are too readily available without having been earned.

My wife and I live by the principle of 'if we haven't got the money we can't afford it' and it's served us both pretty well for a combined total of 81 years.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I'm with you Margaret and I do believe that the world has become obsessionally materialistic but I do think that the parents have to take responsibility for how their kids turn out.

My family were hard up and one of my parents was always out working while the other looked after us at home. They couldn't afford the latest gear and we knew it but what they gave us in abundance was time.

If more people turned round to children and explained that real life is not like an episode of Hannah Montana then we might not have the 'want it now' culture that we're raising.

I got a paper round at 12 coupled with a labouring job after school at a local nursery and it taught me the value of money. That is the root cause of many problems as things are too readily available without having been earned.

My wife and I live by the principle of 'if we haven't got the money we can't afford it' and it's served us both pretty well for a combined total of 81 years.

Once again Ken we have some common ground, especially your last statement. I have never had anything on HP nor will I, that's living today an paying tomorrow. If I need anything I save up until I have the money to buy it. Some of the new ads on TV have me shaking my head, you know the Quick Quid ads short term loans, there's one saying borrow £70 for 5 days will cost you £9-22p around 2236% APR, why didn't I Think of that

[Less]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

My wife and I live by the principle of 'if we haven't got the money we can't afford it' and it's served us both pretty well for a combined total of 81 years.

Disgusting! You're telling us your wife is only 12?