The Demon Drink

[Margaret Pilkington]

And that works doesn't it? You would simply go to a range of different shops.......and there are a few to go at aren't there?
Unless of course the government was thinking of introducing ration cards....but it still wouldn't work because it would drive the black market in alcohol and we would probably have a 'speakeasy' type culture arising..

This genie is out of the bottle(no pun intended there - it was only half a pun anyway)...there is no enticing it back in.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

Anybody thought of what would happen the day before prices went up? Would the whole country go a massive bender whilst they could.

Image the queues of people stocking up at Asda for days before. Supplies would dry up. Alcohol keeps doesn't it?, better get several years worth in before the price rise. All I can say is they'll have to spring this on people.

Booze cruises will also suddenly come back into fashion.

Perhaps a more sensible measure would be to introduce a maximum purchase allowance similar to when buying paracetamol.

What a brilliant comparison that was, the only thing that making paracetamol only available in packs of 16 was it increased the price, anybody who wanted paracetamol in large amounts only have to walk down any street calling in at grocers newsagents etc. probably the most useless piece of legislation ever

[cashman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

What a brilliant comparison that was, the only thing that making paracetamol only available in packs of 16 was it increased the price, anybody who wanted paracetamol in large amounts only have to walk down any street calling in at grocers newsagents etc. probably the most useless piece of legislation ever

It don't suprise me that comparison..

[susie123]

Originally Posted by jaysay

What a brilliant comparison that was, the only thing that making paracetamol only available in packs of 16 was it increased the price, anybody who wanted paracetamol in large amounts only have to walk down any street calling in at grocers newsagents etc. probably the most useless piece of legislation ever

The thing that annoys me about the paracetamol legislation is that many shops also apply it to other painkillers such as ibuprofen which do not have the same risks as paracetamol.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by susie123

The thing that annoys me about the paracetamol legislation is that many shops also apply it to other painkillers such as ibuprofen which do not have the same risks as paracetamol.

Lets be honest the Legislation is useless, a couple can go in a store n both can buy em n some will allow yeh more anyway, as we have discovered.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I have a cupboard full of paracetamol...well no......I have quite a few packs...maybe 20.
It gets me, that governments think we are all like five year olds...not to be trusted.
I am surprised we can buy matches and other potentially dangerous items.

If anyone really wanted to do themselves in using paracetamol........one single pack of 16 might just do the job.
In my nursing career I saw people(girls mainly = tiff with B/f = end it all) who took a relatively small amount of this drug ...one girl took only 11 and it killed her...not right away......but weeks and weeks later. She hadn't wanted to die, not really....she just wanted someone to notice she was hurting psychologically...but die she did.

Legislation is not the answer, taxation is not the answer.......education might have a role, but it is only a secondary one.
Young people think their lives are endless and they have become so hedonistic.......want it now, no boundaries...no alcohol, means to them, no fun.
They do not see the health risks.......or if they do, they do not take them seriously.
Maybe a National Service type enterprise might alter their views, because instead of putting them in the Army, they could be working on hospital wards, in A&E departments......no, not nursing patients, but doing other things that expose them to the sights that perhaps would alter their views on drugs and alcohol.

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Legislation is not the answer, taxation is not the answer.......education might have a role, but it is only a secondary one.
Young people think their lives are endless and they have become so hedonistic.......want it now, no boundaries...no alcohol, means to them, no fun.
They do not see the health risks.......or if they do, they do not take them seriously.
Maybe a National Service type enterprise might alter their views, because instead of putting them in the Army, they could be working on hospital wards, in A&E departments......no, not nursing patients, but doing other things that expose them to the sights that perhaps would alter their views on drugs and alcohol.

That is not a bad idea Margaret.

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by accyman

i think there are bigger burdens on the NHS than a few rides to hospital for drunk people but please welcome argument number 1 in the list of many minor points that will be used to demonise people who enjoy a drink.As usual everyone will have to pay the price for a mere handfull of people who cant use common sense.

previously demon smokers

now demon drinkers

next how dare you have sugar in coffee you scumbags

It's not just a few rides in ambulances there is a lot of senseless violence caused by drunken idiots around town centres of the country that wastes a lot of time and money for the NHS!

[accyman]

Originally Posted by kestrelx

It's not just a few rides in ambulances there is a lot of senseless violence caused by drunken idiots around town centres of the country that wastes a lot of time and money for the NHS!

theres also lots of acts of violence caused by sober people but how do we tax that ?

another problem that wastes services is smackheads etc dialing 999 for an ambulance because they live near the hospital and when they get to the hospital they jump out and go home and the ambulance crew are powerless to stop them.Again how can you tax that.

if the government really gave a damn about draining resources of the NHS they would start at the administrative level and stop blaming the people who use teh service.Yes there are drunks who through stupidity get themselves in need of medical treatment but that i bet is a mere fraction of cost compared to the waste in purchasing departments, administrators wages and paying double wages for agencey staff because they have made been a full time nurse so unappealing through long hours and low pay people arnt attracted to the job as they once were.

This is merely an exercise in providing an excuse to tax the hell out of something just like they do with fuel claiming they are preventing global warming.My arse they are

[Margaret Pilkington]

There is much less waste in the NHS now than there was, although I still think that it is top heavy with management....as far as your point about agency nurses....I think that might just be wide of the mark. When I left the NHS some years ago we called on our own NHS registered bank nurses....and as a Senior Ward Sister/manager I avoided using Bank nurses at all costs...preferring to call in my own staff to work to cover deficiencies(offering them time off in lieu)...... most of my staff were very helpful in this way....and they knew that if they were in need of a day off and I could give it then I would do. We reciprocated in order to provide safe cover.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by cashman

Lets be honest the Legislation is useless, a couple can go in a store n both can buy em n some will allow yeh more anyway, as we have discovered.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Maybe a National Service type enterprise might alter their views, because instead of putting them in the Army, they could be working on hospital wards, in A&E departments.

I can cross the border into Holland go to the Supermarket or Chemists (specifically sited there for German buyers) & pick up a box of 100, yes 100, Paracetamol 500mg with or without Caffeine for €1,50 about GBP 1.25.

As to the National service I agree totally, the "Wehrdienst" was abolished on the 01/07/11 but prior to that all youngsters after their schooling & if they didn't go into further education or apprenticeship had to serve either as "Wehrdienst" Military or "Zivildienst" working in Hospitals, old peoples homes & suchlike. Although it isn't perfect at least they got another perspective on life which may well have changed some attitudes & perceptions of these young adults.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Long shifts come with the territory, as do unsocial hours......this never put women off training in the past.....but I think that many nurses train and then find that there just might not be a job at the end of it.......I know that this is the case in midwifery.....and I am sure Lettie will confirm this.

[Margaret Pilkington]

And we aren't really talking about demonising drinkers here, we are talking about a minimum price for units of alcohol as a deterrent to binge drinking......this isn't the chap who goes out on a Friday night and has a couple of pints to start his weekend......but it will affect him. It doesn't target the ones who need to be reined in....it targets those who drink sensibly, responsibly.
So it is another taste of same old, same old...penalise the many for the faults of the few young daft folk who want to get off their faces.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by kestrelx

It's not just a few rides in ambulances there is a lot of senseless violence caused by drunken idiots around town centres of the country that wastes a lot of time and money for the NHS!

Spot on kestrelx something we can agree on

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

There is much less waste in the NHS now than there was, although I still think that it is top heavy with management....as far as your point about agency nurses....I think that might just be wide of the mark. When I left the NHS some years ago we called on our own NHS registered bank nurses....and as a Senior Ward Sister/manager I avoided using Bank nurses at all costs...preferring to call in my own staff to work to cover deficiencies(offering them time off in lieu)...... most of my staff were very helpful in this way....and they knew that if they were in need of a day off and I could give it then I would do. We reciprocated in order to provide safe cover.

Its a know fact that only 70p in every pound is used wisely in the NHS, 30% waste is a hell of a lot of money down the drain, as you say management is top heavy, there are more chiefs than indians and all the chiefs have nice cars to go with the job