The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans

[park381]

Originally Posted by fireman

but when you started this thread you stated that under achieving black boys was a "very valid concern" aand i agree. most kids theese days have "attitude" rergardless of colour but segregating black boys i don't think is the answer to under achievers. I don't think the 5% of white kids at hyndburn park will be taken into a class of their own and more teaching effort poured upon yhem because they are not "achieving".

Look at the new "Oswaldtwistle School" formally Rhyddings annexe on Union road, that is where a lot of the under-achievers finish up, there is an attempt via 1 to 1 teaching to turn things round, a lot of the secondary schools have "specialist units" where under -achievers are placed again in attempt to turn things round, specialist teachers are brought in to teach these kids.That is kids of every colour.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by park381

That is kids of every colour.

Which is exactly how it should be.

[garinda]

Certainly in London, where this was first raised a lot of these Black lads don't have Dad's in their lives Pixie. There is a culture, not just amongst Blacks, to have lots of 'Baby Mothers.'
Perhaps schools should teach how to use a knife & fork, the 3R's, and how to be better parents.
Soon these children will be having children,frightening. Who if not school, is going to put some structure in their lives?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by park381

Why, cause its better than earning a living grafting, or serving an apprenticeship in a craft.
What courses are they taking in this further education, media studies etc. still when they have finished with their further education, they can go on to uni, spend another few years before they even look for work.
And yes I to went on to further education, at night after a days work.

Agree on the uselessness of degrees in Media Study degrees, but when it's more likely that you will win the lottery than get an apprenticeship nowadays, at least it's better than sitting back and doing nothing. They may not all be reading the news but at least they are trying to extract what they can from the system.

[pendy]

Unfortunately, with degrees in Media Studies and Aromatherapy, what is being taking out of the system is the p***.

Education should be a partnership between the home and the school. We should teach children to the best of their ability, whatever that ability. We should also teach them to fill out forms, how to cope with society, and that every right carries a responsibility. Too many people know their rights, too few appreciate their responsibilities. Whatever your culture, it is not an excuse not to subscribe to the system. Children have come from appalling backgrounds and have gone on to make a success, academic or otherwise, of their lives. However, that was when schools still had sanctions, when there was a culture of respect for teachers and other adults. We need to teach that, and that should start in the home ... by the age of 5, it is already getting to be too late.

What is vital is to educate the next generation to be responsible and caring parents - otherwise we have a self-perpetuating culture of lack of respect and lack of achievement.

[fireman]

Too much emphasis is put on the colour of kids and colour in general. Why should they be compared white against black or black against white. Treat them as kids and look to their needs they are not there yo be measured and compared.

[-pixie]

Originally Posted by garinda

Certainly in London, where this was first raised a lot of these Black lads don't have Dad's in their lives Pixie. There is a culture, not just amongst Blacks, to have lots of 'Baby Mothers.'
Perhaps schools should teach how to use a knife & fork, the 3R's, and how to be better parents.
Soon these children will be having children,frightening. Who if not school, is going to put some structure in their lives?

Just because a child doesn't have a father does this make them automatically thick? Unable to learn?
I think the onus is put on schools far too much. It should be shifted back onto parents - make them do their job or make them face some serious consequences. Right now it seems that schools are expected not only to educate, but to bring up children as well.

[garinda]

I agree with you, l started in this thread because someone said some children are born 'thick'. l don't think this is true.
Segregating kids because of their colour, in my opinion is wrong.
l still feel schools should play a part in imparting standards into children, who don't get it at home. Apparently there seems a lot of them from what people have said here.

[WillowTheWhisp]

If a mother chooses to be a single parent she also chooses to have the extra responsibility ............. nah it doesn't seem to work does it? The ones who don't want a man around are often the ones who don't take much interest in their children either. Maybe they are the ones who need to be educated.

When my husband died, for a few years my children didn't have a father figure in their lives but they didn't suddenly become thick or unteachable.

[garinda]

Yes being a single parent as my Nan was, makes no difference if you're a good or bad parent. But there is a whole generation growing up who have parents that take little interest in them. These kids will soon be parents. A downward spiral. Schools could help in this by teaching morals, self worth etc. as well as the 3R's.

[park381]

Originally Posted by garinda

Agree on the uselessness of degrees in Media Study degrees, but when it's more likely that you will win the lottery than get an apprenticeship nowadays

Agree on the degrees, but on the apprenticeship, that's got to be a no no no (could that be PB speaking lol)I have several friends that run businesses, they do employ apprentices, and I have seen some of the application forms One of the main problems is that it is no longer attractive to the youth of today, to work on a building site learning a trade, or to work in a machine shop, they want the fast life and pots of money instantly, or that the world owes them a living. A trade is something no one can take away from you,plus it's something you can always go back to.

[Tealeaf]

This is an interesting apprenticeship scheme that is due to start in September. Although it's Network Rail, the course is to be run in conjunction with the Royal Navy. I think something like this would be far more valuable than a "degree" in Media & Lesbian studies.

http://www.networkrailcareers.co.uk/apprenticeships.cfm

[Lampman]

Whereas apprenticeships used to be unpopular with the youth of the day( badly underpaid for 5 or 6 years)I think nowadays they are the gateway to earning a good income.
Have any of us tried to get the services of a plumber/gas service engineer or electrician at short notice?
As for the question of colour it shouldn't come into it,but alas it does with predjudice on both sides of the divide. A person should be judged by their merits not pigeon-holed as a special case,due to his or her colour.
Any prospective employer who lets the applicants colour become a deciding factor,doesn't deserve the position of authority and should be dealt with with the exsisting laws.
As for the single parent issue,how did all the World War 1&2 widows manage to bring up their children?

[park381]

Originally Posted by Lampman

Whereas apprenticeships used to be unpopular with the youth of the day( badly underpaid for 5 or 6 years)I think nowadays they are the gateway to earning a good income.

Remember it well wage packet £2 2shillings &6pence. those were the days eh, by time bus fares were paid to and from work not much left.
I do think at one time the unions caused a major problem by forcing the apprentices pay up, to such a point that firms did stop employing apprentices, but its on the move again, and there is a shortage of skilled craftsmen right across the board

[Margaret Pilkington]

And isn't that what would put Accrington back on its feet........a skilled work force.
The children are the 'seed corn' and we cannot expect our borough to flourish if the education of our children is neglected.