The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans

[WillowTheWhisp]

Trevor Phillips, the Chairman of the CRE (Commission for Racial Equality) has expressed his concern that black schoolboys are not doing as well as they should/could/ought in schools. A very valid concern. His suggested solution to this problem is to educate them separately although he himself admits that part of the problem is the attitude amongst black scoolboys that it is not "cool" to be an academic acheiver.

If it isn't cool when they are in a class with Asian, Chinese, White or whatever schoolboys (and girls ) then what makes it become "cool" to be singled out and eductaed separately? Will their attitudes suddenly change?

He also points out that part of the problem is a lack of father figure in the home as many of these boys come from single parent families where the father plays no part at all in their upbringing. I venture to suggest that doesn't only apply to black boys. I am aware of many white single parent families where the mothers don't want anything to do with the fathers. sad but true. I only know of two muslim families where this is the case and of those two only one is Asian but that doesn't mean that there may not be more.

There is an excellent article in today's Daily Mail by Dr. Tony Sewell, education consultant and director of The Learning Trust who himself at one time was a "black schoolboy" and he thinks the proposed solution would be worse than the problem itself. In the 60s in the USA people died for the right to an integrated education system. Going backwards cannot be the solution surely.

Isn't there a solution available within an integrated system where any failing pupil, black, white pink or polka dot can be encouraged and helped? If the child himself (or indeed herself) refuses to learn can segregation change that? What about the white kids with no father figure and the same sort of attitude? or indeed those with a father figure who has that attitude (I can think of one - "MY kid don't need to know that stuff coz I never did an it aint done me no 'arm. I still gets me benefits")

Apparently some Afro-Caribbean (his words not mine) families are sending their children to the West Indies for an education, not because they have all black schools there but because the system there is like we had back in the 1950s with stricter regimes and firmer discipline and hey guess what? The children learn more. Doesn't that speak volumes about the "improvements" in our education system here over the past 50 years?

[mthead]

So something about it on news yesterday evening.Just reminded me of S.African apartheid.

[vorlon24]

It made me think the same.

I also think discipline should be brought back. Half the teachers at my son's school think "Ooh, poor little darlings; we can't push them too hard"

And it's no good talking to the Head, apparently - he's just a wet blanket, from what I've heard.

It's meant to be a good school, though. There's over 100 pupils on the waiting list

[Lampman]

School discipline has indeed collapsed;half of the teachers are opting for early retirement or part time work.No wonder,they are asked to do an impossible task;teach unruly youngsters without the threat of adequate punishment for wrongdoers.
Apparently the threat of detention has been neutred; teachers have to pre warn parents that little Johhny will be in detention,not neccessarily after school either!
The Nanny culture continues when kids are at Youth centres,any misbehaviour is only perceived as ,'Pushing the envelope'.
Kids are now given leaflets on their rights if police stop them in the streets!
Where will it end?
Well I think we now see the signs, the generation that have been brought up this way are now themselves having kids and the lack of discipline in kids and parents is unbelievable(with of course some exceptions)
I think it is a mixture of the Thatcher greed years and the Mary Poppins Blairite mentality.
Time for some sense,but again, from which direction will it appear?

[JohnW]

You're right Willow, people in the USA did die in the sixties trying to integrate many things including the education system. But things have gone too far the other way. It would appear that, like Britain, many black children think it, not only, 'uncool' to do well in school, but can be accused by their black peers of 'selling out' and becoming white! In order to get more blacks integrated into colleges now, they are actually accepting them, even though their grades are inferior to many white students. This, IMHO, is reverse-discrimination gone mad. Also, we now have a situation where black students are insisting that they should have their own separate dorms on campus. How regressive is that? There is a book written by a black guy on this subject which, again, IMHO, should be read by all kids, black and white in US/UK schools. I cannot recall the name of it at the moment but I will post it later in the day and would advise all who are interested in this subject to read it. It gives great insights into how the 'white world' is viewed by many black people.

[JohnW]

The name of the book mentioned above is:

The content of our character. by Shelby Steele.

Second hand books are available on amazon.com at very cheap prices. This book is well worth reading and gets to the root of the racial questions. I would be interested to hear comments from anyone who decides to give the book a go. Remember, this is written by a successful black man living in America.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I've just found a review of that book on the internet - I shall look for more.

One thing I found disturbing in what I have just read is the reference to "white guilt" and particularly a comment that the book in the hands of whites who have never felt "white guilt" is a dangerous thing.

Not only have I never felt "white guilt" I'm not 100% sure I even understand what they mean although I suspect it is something similar to an experience I had in Ireland when I was told:

"You persecuted us and allowed us to starve to death"

To which my response was that the person speaking far from having starved to death was indeed very much alive. That I couldn't personally be held responsible for something which was perceived to have been done by my ancestors to their ancestors and apart from anything else my own personal ancestors were on the receiving end of a bit of persecution themselves at the time.

[-pixie]

Why should anyone feel guilty over their colour or what their ancestors have done, or have had done to them?
I refuse to feel guilty for being white. Its not something that I had any choice or control over.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Personally if I did have a choice I think I'd prefer to be a sort of golden beige colour. White isn't white it's a sort of yucky transparent pinkyness with blue mottled bits here and there and the odd vein or two thrown in for good measure.

[Acrylic-bob]

You would be surprised to see the full range of colours observable in white skin - practically all the colours of the rainbow, plus earth colours!

[garinda]

Segregation never the answer, whatever the skin colour.

Rather interesting re: other threads about integration of minorities, and not ghettoising people.

[chav1]

if your thick then your thick it just so happens these kids are black and thick so they get media attention

plenty of white thick kids about just look on the street corners and you will see them

[garinda]

No one is naturally 'thick', everyone should have an education system that brings out the best in eveyone, regardless of colour.

[chav1]

all ime saying is colour dosnt make you thick and yes people are naturaly thick but its not limited to their colour

some people just cant be taught a decent eductaion as its beyond their capabilaties but this applys to whites , blacks, yellows and what ever coulour of skin a person may have

[WillowTheWhisp]

They aren't thick. They just don't see any street cred in learning anything. It's the attitude which needs addressing. There are also plenty of white (or multi coloured) kids who don't see that there's any street cred in learning either. Sad state of affairs isn't it?