The EU gravy train

[West Ender]

I was against joining Europe right from the start. There was no referendum on whether we should or should not join, that vote came a few years later on whether we should leave. The majority of the electorate was brainwashed into believing it would be too expensive and too difficult to leave and, so, missed the opportunity to get out more or less unscaithed.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by West Ender

I was against joining Europe right from the start. There was no referendum on whether we should or should not join, that vote came a few years later on whether we should leave. The majority of the electorate was brainwashed into believing it would be too expensive and too difficult to leave and, so, missed the opportunity to get out more or less unscaithed.

The thing is West Ender, the beast we have today is far different than what we had back in the 70s, the concept of the Common Market was beneficial to the country back then, but today its an out of control money wasting machine

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by jaysay

The thing is West Ender, the beast we have today is far different than what we had back in the 70s, the concept of the Common Market was beneficial to the country back then, but today its an out of control money wasting machine

The major parties are so totally out of touch with the general population on this issue that this is the situation you get now - Tories like Jaysay contradict their own party policy (try asking the boy David if the EU is an "out of control, money-wasting machine"), while Labourites prefer to avoid the subject altogether!

[MargaretR]

This happens to be the stage on the Mayan calendar when
Power becomes subservient to Ethics
..now isn't that good news then

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

The major parties are so totally out of touch with the general population on this issue that this is the situation you get now - Tories like Jaysay contradict their own party policy (try asking the boy David if the EU is an "out of control, money-wasting machine"), while Labourites prefer to avoid the subject altogether!

Unlike lots of politically involved people Wynonie, I have always looked at things from my prospective and not the Party Angle and there are times I have disagreed with the official party line, I'm quite capable of looking at things from my own point of view and not the party line, always have and always will

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Unlike lots of politically involved people Wynonie, I have always looked at things from my prospective and not the Party Angle and there are times I have disagreed with the official party line, I'm quite capable of looking at things from my own point of view and not the party line, always have and always will

Glad to hear it, mate. I would think there's lots of Tory and Labour party members who harbour similar feelings towards the EU. Unfortunately, most of them won't come out and say it!

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Glad to hear it, mate. I would think there's lots of Tory and Labour party members who harbour similar feelings towards the EU. Unfortunately, most of them won't come out and say it!

I'm my own man Wynonie always have been and will never change, well its a bit late now anyway

[West Ender]

Originally Posted by jaysay

The thing is West Ender, the beast we have today is far different than what we had back in the 70s, the concept of the Common Market was beneficial to the country back then, but today its an out of control money wasting machine

I agree Europe has changed, Jaysay, but quite a lot of us realised the implications for the future and, to be honest, I don't think there was much benefit in the concept of the Common Market. France and Germany were determined, even then, that Britain would do less well out of the deal than they did. We should have stayed with our Commonwealth and kept our sovereignty.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

The major parties are so totally out of touch with the general population on this issue that this is the situation you get now - Tories like Jaysay contradict their own party policy (try asking the boy David if the EU is an "out of control, money-wasting machine"), while Labourites prefer to avoid the subject altogether!

Picking up on the "major parties" thing .... I presume that the UKIP and the BNP are for opting out of the EU. There seems to be strong feeling against it on here. How will the antipathy to the EU translate into votes for the fringe parties and against the mainstream parties? And an observation: The option of drawing closer to North America has been there ever since the early twentieth century ... Europe seems to be more fragmented than ever ... can an EU parliament ease the tensions caused by the state of the world economy? Or will economic and nationalistic tensions pull apart what seems from this side of the pond to be a jerry built structure? The economies of North America will recover. Might it not be in the better interests of GB to draw closer to countries with which it already has a very special relationship (Mexico can be dealt with later). It's still within living memory for many that in 1944 the beaches at Normandy were stormed by armies from the US, Canada, and Britain. If it weren't for the Anglo-American connection back in those days, there wouldn't be a Europe for chrissake. Here endeth the "it's not really any of my business rant".

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Eric

Picking up on the "major parties" thing .... I presume that the UKIP and the BNP are for opting out of the EU. There seems to be strong feeling against it on here. How will the antipathy to the EU translate into votes for the fringe parties and against the mainstream parties? And an observation: The option of drawing closer to North America has been there ever since the early twentieth century ... Europe seems to be more fragmented than ever ... can an EU parliament ease the tensions caused by the state of the world economy? Or will economic and nationalistic tensions pull apart what seems from this side of the pond to be a jerry built structure? The economies of North America will recover. Might it not be in the better interests of GB to draw closer to countries with which it already has a very special relationship (Mexico can be dealt with later). It's still within living memory for many that in 1944 the beaches at Normandy were stormed by armies from the US, Canada, and Britain. If it weren't for the Anglo-American connection back in those days, there wouldn't be a Europe for chrissake. Here endeth the "it's not really any of my business rant".

there's always been a strong anti EU attitude in Britian...but then over the past few years there has also been a growing resentment of the USA...you don't have to look to hard to find posts on here calling Blair a "poodle" of Bush and blaming both for the war in Iraq...the days of the USA,Canada and Britian storming the beaches in Normandy are long gone...it's more about economics...and I don't like the sound of the USA running the world economy!
ps(Eric..you itching for another war?)

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by West Ender

I agree Europe has changed, Jaysay, but quite a lot of us realised the implications for the future and, to be honest, I don't think there was much benefit in the concept of the Common Market. France and Germany were determined, even then, that Britain would do less well out of the deal than they did. We should have stayed with our Commonwealth and kept our sovereignty.

When it was set up, just for trade purposes, the concept was sound, but back in the seventies we never realised just what an out of control juggernaut it would become some forty years later. Plus we have to remember that the ordinary rank and file weren't as well informed then as they are now, people are far more aware what is going on in the world because of the explosion of media outlets which bring us facts 24/7

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by jaysay

When it was set up, just for trade purposes, the concept was sound, but back in the seventies we never realised just what an out of control juggernaut it would become some forty years later. Plus we have to remember that the ordinary rank and file weren't as well informed then as they are now, people are far more aware what is going on in the world because of the explosion of media outlets which bring us facts 24/7

Many 'media outlets' are under government control, so it is prudent NOT to believe all you are told.

The only way to be sure of accessing the truth is by a worldwide search for news, and if a news item appears in 2 different countries, the chances are it is true.
I have seen some items reported, and when I have returned for a 2nd look, the item has been removed.

Trust your instincts

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

Many 'media outlets' are under government control, so it is prudent NOT to believe all you are told.

The only way to be sure of accessing the truth is by a worldwide search for news, and if a news item appears in 2 different countries, the chances are it is true.
I have seen some items reported, and when I have returned for a 2nd look, the item has been removed.

Trust your instincts

Media outlets was meant as a wide spread angle Margaret, not just newspapers, TV and Radio, and I'm not to sure whether the Government have as much control over these outlets as you think, but I have to agree that, by doing your own research on line you get a more balanced view

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Mancie

there's always been a strong anti EU attitude in Britian...but then over the past few years there has also been a growing resentment of the USA...you don't have to look to hard to find posts on here calling Blair a "poodle" of Bush and blaming both for the war in Iraq...the days of the USA,Canada and Britian storming the beaches in Normandy are long gone...it's more about economics...and I don't like the sound of the USA running the world economy!
ps(Eric..you itching for another war?)

Nah, not itchin' for another war; there's no shortage of them going on right now ... and, by the way, Bush has gone; there has been a change in America since Obama took over, maybe not as radical as some would wish (but more radical than others feared) ... the idea of the US, Canada, and Britain storming beaches may seem anachronistic, but I think it shows the natural affinity of what Churchill called the "English speaking peoples." If there is to be true economic co-operation, there has to be a stronger foundation than temporary self-interest. I'm just offering the opinion that Britain has more in common with her friends in the west than she has with Europe ...

It is possible to argue that Britain is not really European at all; throughout history Britain has aligned herself with European powers only to further her own power, or protect it. Could be the insularity thing ... Anyhow, I think I've said more than enough about something which doesn't affect me all that much.

[MargaretR]

A private members bill to get us out of the EU has been submitted to parliament.
Here it is -

http://www.publications.parliament.u...50/2009050.pdf

Whichever MP of whichever party has submitted it, he deserves a pat on the back, and all the luck in the world.