THE GAY COMMUNITY YOUR VIEWS

[garinda]

Willow l have to go out now as l'm babysitting. l'll try and answer your points later if l can. l haven't accused anyone of being homophobic in this thread, though l have in others regarding the council.
Having met each other briefly the other Saturday, both you and Busman are good people and l totally respect your religous views. Though l can't of course agree that my life is a 'lifestyle' choice, or is currable-as l'm sure my life would have been simpler if not as colourful if l'd be given a choice.

[pendy]

It is only in our Christian culture that people are classified as gay or straight. In other cultures, a degree of homosexuality is the norm. In Ancient Greece, people had relationships with others of the same sex and of the opposite sex. The need to classify causes endless problems. I know a number of people who have had relationships with both sexes. I don't classify them as bi - they have a relationship with a person they like and feel sexually drawn to. Whether that person is male or female does not matter.

I will frankly admit that many years ago I met someone who I thought on first acquaintance was male and fancied him like mad - I was somewhat taken aback, to put it mildly, to find out that HE was a SHE! I didn't take the relationship any further, whereas I certainly would have done if SHE had been a HE - so work that one out.

I also have one close friend who was known generally as a randy s*d - very attractive to women, two marriages, lots of lovers - he is now she. We're still friends, R likes the same things that D did, so where's the difference? I can't say I understand it, but friendship covers all sorts of things.

We all of us have different aspects to our make-up - I don't regard homosexuality as a disease, but as a lifestyle choice - I know that many will say that there IS no choice, and whilst that may be true in some cases, it is not necessarily a given. Many people have heterosexual relationships, marry, and raise children, and then decide to practise a gay lifestyle.

Things are rarely that simple ....

[Neil]

Here is some information I found at http://www.mormon.org/question/faq/c...1-60-1,00.html

Question:
What is the Church's attitude toward homosexuality?

Answer:
Gordon B. Hinckley, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, issued the following statement about homosexuality:

"We believe that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God. We believe that marriage may be eternal through exercise of the power of the everlasting priesthood in the house of the Lord.

"People inquire about our position on those who consider themselves so-called gays and lesbians. My response is that we love them as sons and daughters of God. They may have certain inclinations which are powerful and which may be difficult to control. Most people have inclinations of one kind or another at various times. If they do not act upon these inclinations, then they can go forward as do all other members of the Church. If they violate the law of chastity and the moral standards of the Church, then they are subject to the discipline of the Church, just as others are.

"We want to help these people, to strengthen them, to assist them with their problems and to help them with their difficulties. But we cannot stand idle if they indulge in immoral activity, if they try to uphold and defend and live in a so-called same-sex marriage situation. To permit such would be to make light of the very serious and sacred foundation of God-sanctioned marriage and its very purpose, the rearing of families" (Ensign, Nov. 1998, 71).


Sorry I could not format my post better, I am having a problem with the advanced reply option for some strange reason.

[vorlon24]

Moving slightly away from the point then, does that mean that marriage is immoral if you don't have children?

[g78]

Ok people why are we even discussing this???? There is no reason to do so. By having a thread to highlight the 'gay lifestyle' we are once again alienating the topic. I donn't see a thread under the heading 'The Straight Community - Your Views'
And to be fair to Garinda, I don't think he pushes his sexuality down peoples throats. There are guys on here who flirt and talk about women all the time, but no one accuses them of forcing their sexuality on us.
Drag yourselves into this century folks and realise whats really important and what is essentially trivial.
Goodnight and godbless, I love you all .

[Doug]

Originally Posted by g78

Ok people why are we even discussing this???? There is no reason to do so. By having a thread to highlight the 'gay lifestyle' we are once again alienating the topic. I donn't see a thread under the heading 'The Straight Community - Your Views'
And to be fair to Garinda, I don't think he pushes his sexuality down peoples throats. There are guys on here who flirt and talk about women all the time, but no one accuses them of forcing their sexuality on us.
Drag yourselves into this century folks and realise whats really important and what is essentially trivial.
Goodnight and godbless, I love you all .

G78, its 01.15 p.m. in the afternoon don’t to over excited about this issue, its not that people are having a go at individuals or directing hostility at gay culture or homosexuality in general. Yes we live in the 21st century in the political sense but your still dealing with Victorian attitudes towards the subject.

I don’t think the attitudes of the Church or devout Christians will make any difference to the outcomes of how people react or respond on the matter. Today gay culture is much more open than its been for 2000 years, rejoice in that and keep and open mind. Those who choose to practice homosexuality irrespective of there reasoning should also keep in mind that they are still a minority in a Heterosexual would, a world driven by history, religion and greed. Continued overt pressure will only result in people digging there heels in. Everyone should debate this matter like adults and try not to debase the genuine issues that both sides of the argument have. We shouldn’t slap someone for having strong personal beliefs, but at the same time others shouldn’t be slap because they choose to stand by their convictions. Accord is how differences are solved not conflict.

If someone wants to be the only gay in the forum, then I would say the in for a shock. If someone wants to force gays out of the forum, then I would seek to defend their right to be a member and be gay. If a gay member wants to be accepted as someone or something different then I would have to ask why. Being gay or straight still leaves you a human being and on that fact and that fact alone you will be accepted, and not judged for what you are.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by vorlon24

Moving slightly away from the point then, does that mean that marriage is immoral if you don't have children?

I don't want to end up becoming a spokesperson for the LDS church but the short answer to that question is "No" and in fact I know of one couple who were advised by their Bishop to think carefully about having children due to inheritable health problems on both sides. I also have friends who were unable to have children of their own but were able to adopt.

We've got married couples, single people, large families, smaller families, divorced people, remarried people, mixed race families. We've got all sorts of people. The church is very family orientated in the sense that children are a large part of what goes on with older ones often taking part in the Sunday services and the whole of the primary (Sunday school) ddoing a presentation of what they've learned towards the end of each year. The children write a lot of that themselves.

If you saw them you'd think they were all little angels but I teach the 10-12 year olds and believe me they are quite a handful. They are a challenge but so full of interesting questions and ideas that they give me a lot to think about too.

[Doug]

[QUOTE=g78]And to be fair to Garinda, I don't think he pushes his sexuality down peoples throats. There are guys on here who flirt and talk about women all the time, but no one accuses them of forcing their sexuality on us.

I’m not sure that Garinda does push his sexuality down people’s throats, at least I hope not. And yes their are guys on here who flirt and talk about women all the time, and visa versa, it a matter of respect. If a lady tells me that she regards my flirtations as offensive then I will desist, if she then flirts with me I accept her right to change her mind. It's not about forcing sexuality down people’s throats “poor choice of words I think” g78 it’s about human nature and individual interaction. People on an open forum are fully aware of their actions just as they are in real life, but obscurity and anonymity will always result in some of us going to far, that is why there is a report button and moderators, people should use them. In other respects some women have said how they enjoy the attention and are happy to interact because there is no way that those involved will ever meet in the real world. Others people who wouldn’t be able to flirt in the real world can live out their fantasies in a virtual one. I also have to add that blokes have flirted with each other on here and have never even realised.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Do you mean blokes have flirted with blokes without realising they are flirting? How is it flirting if they don't know they are doing it?





.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Do you mean blokes have flirted with blokes without realising they are flirting? How is it flirting if they don't know they are doing it?.

It means, willow my dear friend that they have failed to realise that they are flirting with a male. I'm always bloody doing it, "he says in a lumber Jack style of tone". And I've seen others make the same mistake. I've even flirted with Garinda. But it matters not to me. I'm happy with my sexuality and I can laugh off misjudgments, I do get a little worried when they wink back though? "That's a joke guys"........

[vorlon24]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I don't want to end up becoming a spokesperson for the LDS church but the short answer to that question is "No" and in fact I know of one couple who were advised by their Bishop to think carefully about having children due to inheritable health problems on both sides. I also have friends who were unable to have children of their own but were able to adopt.

We've got married couples, single people, large families, smaller families, divorced people, remarried people, mixed race families. We've got all sorts of people. The church is very family orientated in the sense that children are a large part of what goes on with older ones often taking part in the Sunday services and the whole of the primary (Sunday school) ddoing a presentation of what they've learned towards the end of each year. The children write a lot of that themselves.

If you saw them you'd think they were all little angels but I teach the 10-12 year olds and believe me they are quite a handful. They are a challenge but so full of interesting questions and ideas that they give me a lot to think about too.

I too know people who have been unable to have children and adopted, so I cna understand if it is not their fault. Additionally people get married later in life and have no desire to have more children at their age (as well as the medical implications)

I also know that churches have their quirky points, and the only reason I brought it up was this quote

Originally Posted by Neil

the very serious and sacred foundation of God-sanctioned marriage and its very purpose, the rearing of families

That indicates (to me anyway) that you should only get married to have children.


Perhaps I ought to add that I do not subscribe to that way of thinking

[g78]

Doug im not saying anyone is having a go at people. Im saying why do we even need to discuss it? I really can't see the point in having a topic where people 'discuss' the gay lifestyle.
We dont go around discussing the 'straight' lifestyle and have direct topics for it, so why should we for the gay community? By making a topic, you are in fact doing the thing most of you are against, highlighting and forcing the gay lifestyle upon us.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I can see what you mean vorlon, although I am not aware of the church ever frowning upon people who do not have children. I think it's more a case of "children should be reared in families" rather than by single mothers or as opposed to the sad situation where children are "in care" and waiting for adoption because some person in authority has decided that a specific type/age/ethnic mix of parent is required. I don't know if that happens as much nowadays but I know it did about 15 years ago when friends of ours were adopting.

Busman and I are getting married soon but not with the aim of having more children. I've got quite enough on my plate with the ones I've already got!

[Doug]

Originally Posted by g78

Doug im not saying anyone is having a go at people. Im saying why do we even need to discuss it? I really can't see the point in having a topic where people 'discuss' the gay lifestyle.
We dont go around discussing the 'straight' lifestyle and have direct topics for it, so why should we for the gay community? By making a topic, you are in fact doing the thing most of you are against, highlighting and forcing the gay lifestyle upon us.

When you but it like that my friend I can see where your coming from and I take your point seriously.

[chav1]

the only gays that bother me are those like jimmy summerville who are always ranting and raving about how homosexuality is the only way to be and theres somthing wrong with you if you are not a homosexual
why he has to continualy scream about his sexuality i have no idea all i know is i wish the little pratt would choke and die ,if he is the voice of homosexuals like he claims it is a sad day for those homosexuals that dont feel the need to broadcast their sex lives to the world and just want to live in peace

i thought perhaps there would be a chance he would shut up when cadburys made a sweet for him

chocolate stars


anyone fancy a bag of them now lol